@larsiu another example of a basic difference. Mamdani housing plan. Owners with fines etc lose ownership. It devolves to the city who will control what happens to the property. They can give it a nonprofit, cooperative, run it. That’s gov ctrl. That’s socialism. That’s fundamentally different than how it works today. The city holds a lien. Publishes an auction date. And private citizens can go buy the property. That’s capitalism.
@larsiu there’s nothing muddled about the core dems and socialists. This person picked by mamdani is a socialist. Its view to property ownership (public/collective) is old school socialism
Collective good. Public stewardship. Takings that transfer ownership to the city. That’s the administration of the largest city in America and the locus of the Dem party.
anyone who thinks radical progressives are the fringe at this point aren’t paying attention.
They'll only get more radical.
https://twitter.com/i/status/2068025804395618564
https://twitter.com/i/status/2069411386359206166
https://twitter.com/i/status/2069450107716608191
@dbmhoosier again I don’t think anything is muddled. I think we need to be honest about who the Dem party is today. The fringe of 2017 is the core today.
it’s AOC Harris mamdani California New York and while they love the culture stuff the new attack is socialism. There are no former moderates with an ounce of juice and that’s because it’s no longer the Dem party
The right insists that the country was founded on Christian values, & it was.
The country was founded on Western Liberal Democratic philosophies which began under the Greeks, who were decidedly not Christian. Christianity helped evolve the views for sure, but let's not pretend the Founders were attempting to create anything approaching a theocratic single religion society.
What divinity is referenced in the Declaration of Independence, Zeus? While explicit mention of god is absent in the Constitution, Christian values & influences are prevalent, but there is a lot of room between incorporating those values & theocracy.
@larsiu 66 percent of Dems support socialism. That center is long gone.
Agreed. Booger isn’t alone in his dismissal of the agenda of left & Muslims employment of them as useful idiots. I have made repeated efforts to get anyone on the board to explain how I am misunderstanding what’s happening & all you get is unserious people like Mark & Boogie with BUT TRUMP responses or folks like Butch ignoring data, history, & what the left & Muslims have explicitly stated as their objectives. It’s baffling that they choose to ignore it, & it the source of my disdain for them when I see what they’re making this country for my son…
Where in my answer to your question did I insert Trump?
You asked a question and I answered. You don't like my answer (which is 100% correct).
You didn’t answer my question. The question was what is the right trying to change, which you did not respond to. If I’m missing the point of “jamming” Christianity in general, perhaps you can provide some examples. Obviously, abortion is a passionate subject for Christians, so other than right to life are there others I’m missing? The word “change” is fundamental to the discussion, as my point is about the left replacing America with something else while the right wants to preserve what we have had for 2.5 centuries.
Either you reading comprehension is off or your memory is declining.
Separation of state and church. 10 commandments in schools. That's against what our nation has done since the establishment clause.
Just because you don't believe in God and claim to not have an opinion either way doesn't change that fact.
As I said before, I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Any links to this? Is this recent or are you referring to things decades ago?
@oneeyedundertaker I think it’s fairly well established that it’s a secular divinity used to speak for the natural order of things. It’s not explicitly a Christian god given further refinement of separation of church and State and cross-referenced to Jefferson’s status as a Deist.
@larsiu 66 percent of Dems support socialism. That center is long gone.
Agreed. Booger isn’t alone in his dismissal of the agenda of left & Muslims employment of them as useful idiots. I have made repeated efforts to get anyone on the board to explain how I am misunderstanding what’s happening & all you get is unserious people like Mark & Boogie with BUT TRUMP responses or folks like Butch ignoring data, history, & what the left & Muslims have explicitly stated as their objectives. It’s baffling that they choose to ignore it, & it the source of my disdain for them when I see what they’re making this country for my son…
Where in my answer to your question did I insert Trump?
You asked a question and I answered. You don't like my answer (which is 100% correct).
You didn’t answer my question. The question was what is the right trying to change, which you did not respond to. If I’m missing the point of “jamming” Christianity in general, perhaps you can provide some examples. Obviously, abortion is a passionate subject for Christians, so other than right to life are there others I’m missing? The word “change” is fundamental to the discussion, as my point is about the left replacing America with something else while the right wants to preserve what we have had for 2.5 centuries.
Either you reading comprehension is off or your memory is declining.
Separation of state and church. 10 commandments in schools. That's against what our nation has done since the establishment clause.
Just because you don't believe in God and claim to not have an opinion either way doesn't change that fact.
As I said before, I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Any links to this? Is this recent or are you referring to things decades ago?
https://www.wfyi.org/education/2026-01-27/ten-commandments-indiana-posted-in-schools-not-read-aloud
@oneeyedundertaker I think it’s fairly well established that it’s a secular divinity used to speak for the natural order of things. It’s not explicitly a Christian god given further refinement of separation of church and State and cross-referenced to Jefferson’s status as a Deist.
The arguments for & against are well established, not just one. There is no denying that Christian values are prevalent in our founding, & in spite of the intent & need to separate church & state are still prevalent. Have you taken an oath lately? Some are not uniquely Christian, but given the background of the founders, it’s likely a source.
Per Claude: Are Christian values prevalent in the founding of the US?
Yes, that argument is commonly made, and there's real evidence for it — though it's also genuinely contested. Here's a fair look at both sides:
Arguments FOR Christian foundations
- The majority of the Founders were at least nominally Christian, and Christian moral philosophy deeply shaped Western thought on justice, human dignity, and natural law
- The concept that rights are God-given (in the Declaration) echoes Christian doctrine
- Early colonial charters were explicitly Christian in purpose
- The legal and moral framework of English common law, which America inherited, was heavily influenced by the Church
- Congress has opened with prayer since 1789, and "In God We Trust" became the national motto
- The ideas of human equality and inherent dignity have deep roots in the Christian tradition ("made in the image of God")
Arguments AGAINST or complicating the claim
- The Constitution itself is notably secular — it never mentions God or Jesus, and explicitly prohibits religious tests for office (Article VI)
- The First Amendment's Establishment Clause was a deliberate wall between church and state
- Many key Founders — Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Washington — were deists, not orthodox Christians
- The Enlightenment (reason, natural law, republicanism) was arguably just as influential as Christianity
- The Treaty of Tripoli (1797) explicitly stated the US was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"
- Native, African, and other non-Christian traditions also shaped American culture
The honest answer
The US was founded in a culturally Christian society, and Christian moral ideas influenced its values — but the governing documents were deliberately non-sectarian. The Founders seemed to want a nation shaped by broad religious morality without being governed by any specific religion. So the argument has merit culturally and philosophically, but is weaker as a constitutional or legal claim.
@larsiu 66 percent of Dems support socialism. That center is long gone.
Agreed. Booger isn’t alone in his dismissal of the agenda of left & Muslims employment of them as useful idiots. I have made repeated efforts to get anyone on the board to explain how I am misunderstanding what’s happening & all you get is unserious people like Mark & Boogie with BUT TRUMP responses or folks like Butch ignoring data, history, & what the left & Muslims have explicitly stated as their objectives. It’s baffling that they choose to ignore it, & it the source of my disdain for them when I see what they’re making this country for my son…
Where in my answer to your question did I insert Trump?
You asked a question and I answered. You don't like my answer (which is 100% correct).
You didn’t answer my question. The question was what is the right trying to change, which you did not respond to. If I’m missing the point of “jamming” Christianity in general, perhaps you can provide some examples. Obviously, abortion is a passionate subject for Christians, so other than right to life are there others I’m missing? The word “change” is fundamental to the discussion, as my point is about the left replacing America with something else while the right wants to preserve what we have had for 2.5 centuries.
Either you reading comprehension is off or your memory is declining.
Separation of state and church. 10 commandments in schools. That's against what our nation has done since the establishment clause.
Just because you don't believe in God and claim to not have an opinion either way doesn't change that fact.
As I said before, I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Any links to this? Is this recent or are you referring to things decades ago?
https://www.wfyi.org/education/2026-01-27/ten-commandments-indiana-posted-in-schools-not-read-aloud
Allowing individual teachers to post them but prohibiting them from reading them is jamming it? Lol…. An argument against it can surely be made, but to characterize that bill as the right trying to change the country is quite a stretch…
You must be disgusted by the Pride movements.😆
You must be disgusted by the Pride movements.
Last Friday must have been truly special for you, celebrating Juneteenth within Pride Month!
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@oneeyedundertaker Christianity did not invent these moral values. They are based on Ancient Greek democratic and classically-liberal principles.
did Christianity do a great job of spreading these values? Of course - but that’s like saying United invented flight.
You must be disgusted by the Pride movements.
Last Friday must have been truly special for you, celebrating Juneteenth within Pride Month!
Not many care about either where I live. We lack some of the diversity that makes America special according to some. 😉
@larsiu 66 percent of Dems support socialism. That center is long gone.
Agreed. Booger isn’t alone in his dismissal of the agenda of left & Muslims employment of them as useful idiots. I have made repeated efforts to get anyone on the board to explain how I am misunderstanding what’s happening & all you get is unserious people like Mark & Boogie with BUT TRUMP responses or folks like Butch ignoring data, history, & what the left & Muslims have explicitly stated as their objectives. It’s baffling that they choose to ignore it, & it the source of my disdain for them when I see what they’re making this country for my son…
Where in my answer to your question did I insert Trump?
You asked a question and I answered. You don't like my answer (which is 100% correct).
You didn’t answer my question. The question was what is the right trying to change, which you did not respond to. If I’m missing the point of “jamming” Christianity in general, perhaps you can provide some examples. Obviously, abortion is a passionate subject for Christians, so other than right to life are there others I’m missing? The word “change” is fundamental to the discussion, as my point is about the left replacing America with something else while the right wants to preserve what we have had for 2.5 centuries.
Either you reading comprehension is off or your memory is declining.
Separation of state and church. 10 commandments in schools. That's against what our nation has done since the establishment clause.
Just because you don't believe in God and claim to not have an opinion either way doesn't change that fact.
As I said before, I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Any links to this? Is this recent or are you referring to things decades ago?
https://www.wfyi.org/education/2026-01-27/ten-commandments-indiana-posted-in-schools-not-read-aloud
Allowing individual teachers to post them but prohibiting them from reading them is jamming it? Lol…. An argument against it can surely be made, but to characterize that bill as the right trying to change the country is quite a stretch…
You must be disgusted by the Pride movements.😆
"The question was what is the right trying to change".
That's part of your post up top. I guess the word "trying" has a different meaning for you and I.
The right insists that the country was founded on Christian values, & it was.
The country was founded on Western Liberal Democratic philosophies which began under the Greeks, who were decidedly not Christian. Christianity helped evolve the views for sure, but let's not pretend the Founders were attempting to create anything approaching a theocratic single religion society.
What divinity is referenced in the Declaration of Independence, Zeus? While explicit mention of god is absent in the Constitution, Christian values & influences are prevalent, but there is a lot of room between incorporating those values & theocracy.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
Is "Nature's God" a Christian God, same for "Creator"?
Not exactly Yahweh or Jesus naming conventions. Which, if they were pointing to Christianity as the source of their moral compass, they could have easily called out. I think the lack of specificity is intentional.
@bar-down I don't agree with Mamdani and his band of morons much at all. But that doesn't mean I don't think some flavors of socialist philosophy don't have value in today's society.
Again, Medicare, single payor, SS, police depts, fire depts, childcare/eldercare benefits, etc. Most of the aforementioned have wildly high levels of support across the aisles. Is everybody a socialist for believing so?
To be sure, it requires the center left majority to make this happen inside the Democratic party. I don't believe the Democratic party is veering towards Marxist economic thought. At least, not entirely. But that shit is going to be REAL hard to hold back if AI really does create disruption in the job market. Actually, probably impossible to hold back.
As usual, we're probably fucked.