So i've provided data that shows confidence in elections is low on the part of both parties. i've provided specific examples of fraud. specific examples of mail-in balloting problems. i've reiterated that i don't think it's massive or truly impacting elections but that that isn't the point. that people feel elections are fair is what's important.
at this point i don't see how any sane person can refute any of the above. @bulk-vh i think we're done here. lock the thread. thank you.
A 9-11 truther feels he/she has no need to show any real evidence for that belief.
A flat Earther feels he/she has no need to show any real evidence for that belief.
A "the government is poisoning us with chemtrails" conspiracy theorist feels he/she has no need to show any real evidence for that belief.
Go down the line...
vaccine deniers,
UFO alien abduction believers,
Earth-centric universe believers,
believers in the mystical powers of "healing crystals" and magic incantations,
believers in widespread stealing of USA elections.
SHOW SOME EVIDENCE, OR WE CAN SAFELY ASSUME THAT YOU ARE JUST MAKING SHIT UP.
It is up to YOU to give support for your contentions. Not just theoretical problems, but issues that have ACTUALLY OCCURRED.
This shouldn't be hard.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@squeakyclean https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5905695-los-angeles-election-interference-warning/
in person. with id. common sense. there's a reasons dems don't want it.
What part of that article has to do with "voter fraud"?
If I am reading that correctly, somebody decided to be a jerk and threw a cigarette into a ballot box and burned some ballots.
From the article "Logan’s office added that it was working to identify the voters who were burned, and that officials would contact those voters and provide information about alternative voting options, such as replacement ballots."
Sounds like the government is doing their job to make sure that all votes are being properly vetted and accounted for.
So explain to me again, with verifiable facts, how this is voter fraud?
The only angle that I can see that you are going for here is the "You should only be allowed to vote in person at the polling station, no mail-in-voting.". OK, that is something that I can get behind, but that is not what is being proposed by Republicans.
You want to eliminate mail-in ballots, fine. I'm game. But you need to do it in a way that allows full access to all eligible voters, which would include increased amounts of polling stations and multi-day voting periods. I'll meet you halfway.
I suspect if Republicans were to offer that, the chances of passing would be far greater.
I have a 20 year old son. Every friend of his that wants a fake, has a fake. Tech has made it EASIER.@gros-louis in the 80s. tech has made it much more difficult. you can't go to the hobby shop and glue on tiny numbers
As a quick FYI, work issue just blew up, so I am not going to be able to respond for a bit.
I don't think COH is senile. That's not nice.You actually think there are fraudulent votes numbering in the thousands and thousands and that they’re doing this because these Republicans candidates are threats to win? Do you? You can’t convince a jury a crime was committed without evidence, right? Isn’t voter fraud a felony? Who’s risking committing this crime thousands of times for a race they can’t possibly lose?you’ll never convince me there is no voter fraud just cuz nobody has discovered it.
like government financial fraud, the only question is how much.
He's literally senile.
@shooter why don't you want people to show their id? this shouldn't be hard
@squeakyclean correct. no mail in votes. show in person. "working ot find the people" is comical. i trust you haven't worked much with gov ees.
no mail in votes. id required. increase voting stations
@gros-louis Yes, fake IDs still work in many casual settings, but they fail far more often now due to massive tech upgrades at doors. While underground manufacturers have used AI-assisted design to successfully clone the barcodes and holographic visuals of modern credentials, venues have heavily pushed back by upgrading their security protocols. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
A man was murdered in your town. Prove you didn't do it.@squeakyclean @big-ryan you both are missing the point entirely.
i don't believe voter fraud is a real issue. i believe mail in voting is fine. BUT when confidence is as bad as set forth above with BOTH parties it's an issue. a real issue. and we're going to have revolts and problems. whether fraud is occurring isn't hte important part. trust and faith are what's important. and that is severely lacking with tens of millions of people
No. I'm not missing the point at all. What needs to be pounded is the truth. Evidence. Proof. Burdens of proof. There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud that is impacting elections in study after study. The courts have weighed in, too, with the same conclusion. Same deal with government investigations.
The public doesn't have trust in much of anything anymore. Social media is mostly to blame. But if the truth is hammered endlessly, like lies are on social media, perceptions can change.
My wife sent a check to the utility company to pay our bill. Prove she wrote it.
@shooter why don't you want people to show their id? this shouldn't be hard
Do you pay no attention whatsoever?
I have always been staunchly in favor of people showing valid ID to register to vote. I have never lived anywhere that did not require that. California and a few other places are too lax in my opinion, though there also isn't evidence of significant abuse of the theoretically too lax methods.
But our system gives the power to the states to control how they vote, and any Federal ID system yet proposed has obvious unintended (?) consequences. On example of unintended consequences (though at the state level) was when one western state enacted a law to require every voter to have a valid numerical street address. Sounds good, right? But... A judge rightly noted that every Native American person living on a reservation by law CANNOT have a numerical street address, as mail is routed to a central reservation address. Requiring a passport or a birth certificate with your exact name on it also rules out many potential voters.
It can be fixed, I'm sure, and I wish people on both sides of the aisle would commit to fixing it. A passport, a birth certificate, a real ID driver's license and accompanying proof of citizenship, or a FEDERAL ID available to anyone, free of charge, together would do it.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
I would contend the “cause” is running 3rd world style elections, knowing it’s a fucked system and refusing to do anything about it.
You compound that with opposition to the SAVE Act which has wide public support and people start to question exactly what your motives are.
“Hey look at these crazy Republicans, they think we’re up to something shady because we keep doing shady shit”
- That’s you and every other blinkered leftist.
1) Parts of the SAVE act have wide public support (and even then, you're still talking about 60%ish). Feel free to encourage your representative to take out all the over-the-top stuff and it will pass with bipartisan support.
2) Define "shady shit". Every time this issue is brought up, the correct response is "Show us the proof", and we get linked stories about vague, one-off cases of voter registrations of a dog or dead people on voter rolls. Yet every time that these cases end up going to court, or get scrutinized a little deeper, it always ends up being either A) A mistake that is corrected and no votes were every actually cast for said canine / dead person or B) turns out to be a lie.
So put-up or shut-up. Show us this rampant voter fraud. Not one-offs. Show me how elections are being altered.
Your "belief" is not enough to justify taking my tax-payer dollars to overhaul a system that is working just fine.
Sending ballots automatically to last known addresses is shady. Having no cap on ballot chasing is fucking shady. Banning showing ID is shady. Fighting the Federal government to ensure you're voter rolls aren't cleaned is shady. With respect to California you could do this for an entire day.
Don't play dumb. I HATE when leftists play dumb.
There's no use belaboring the SAVE act with you because you're dishonest. The core tenets, proof of citizenship to register and ID to vote are overwhelmingly popular. And no, Democrats would NOT pass a bill stripped down to those two things.
Stop playing dumb. Engage like an adult.
@shooter why don't you want people to show their id? this shouldn't be hard
Requiring a passport or a birth certificate with your exact name on it also rules out many potential voters.
Stop doing this. This only rules out a voter if the voter is retarded. If you can't produce a passport and/or marriage license and BC, then you have bigger problems. You can't function as an adult. Society need not cater to morons, but that seems to be all Democrats want to do with their policies.
@carramrod My 99-year old aunt lives in a nursing home now. She's voted regularly for ~80 years but doesn't have her birth certificate any more, and if she did it would have her maiden name on it. She doesn't have her marriage certificate either. Maybe it was lost in a move in the >20 years since her husband died, when she also stopped traveling and didn't renew her passport.
Is she "retarded" (your purposely offensive choice of words)?
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@carramrod My 99-year old aunt lives in a nursing home now. She's voted regularly for ~80 years but doesn't have her birth certificate any more, and if she did it would have her maiden name on it. She doesn't have her marriage certificate either. Maybe it was lost in a move in the >20 years since her husband died, when she also stopped traveling and didn't renew her passport.
Is she "retarded" (your purposely offensive choice of words)?
First of all. I don’t believe you. But that’s neither here nor there.
The answer to your question is Yes. If she can’t figure out how to renew her passport or order replacement BC and marriage license, she should not be voting.
How can she even have an awareness of candidates and issues if she can’t grasp such mundane procedures?