Another philosophical take on the subject of abortion. It’s ironic that liberals who are so socialistic to the point of communistic do an about face and become totally individualistic when it comes to the living being within the woman’s body.
That said, I’m not sure anyone ever accused liberals of being logical.
If we are invoking the Ship of Theseus, how about this twist? Right to lifers tend to be religious, so if we consider a dualistic view of life, is it ever morally wrong to abort an unborn at any stage of the nine months if that’s just a body and not the soul itself?
If we assume the soul survives the death of the body, then I would argue the presence of a soul is morally irrelevant.
For what it’s worth, I would like to acknowledge that your outrage is well founded and completely sane.
@hhlurker I appreciate that. Sincerely. I feign outrage often and am generally no good myself but these babies deserve advocates. This is not okay. It’s a huge thing
I think you and I are using different understandings of dualism. I’m thinking Cartesian, for example, with the body just a machine (res extensa). Thus, the body has no life absent the spiritual being (soul). Killing a fetus is simply destroying a piece of property possessed by the soul inhabiting it.
Taking it a step further, what right did that soul have to occupy the fetus in the first place?
What do think would be the constitutional authority for such a law?
Holy shit! I'm 99 percent positive that you and I both were for a federal law banning late-term abortion. I know for a fact you never argued against it with me. The argument was between conservative Republicans and the liberal Democrats.
Maybe a federal ban wouldn't be confirmed by SCOTUS, but it's not at all a slam dunk that it wouldn't. I think it would be upheld, but Republicans gave up on it now that the President's position is that abortion on demand until birth is A-OK as long as that is what the state wants.
My wife had two miscarriages, and unfortunately, I was at sea both times. Those are the reason we have an only child. The D&Cs caused some physical issues so my wife was told she couldn't safely have another baby.
You've shared that before.
IIUC, under current law in a number of states those D&Cs wouldn't be allowed unless or until she went septic.
We were in Japan and she had Japanese Doctors in a Japanese hospital. Hopefully, they didn't screw it up, but now you got me thinking maybe they did.
My wife had two miscarriages, and unfortunately, I was at sea both times. Those are the reason we have an only child. The D&Cs caused some physical issues so my wife was told she couldn't safely have another baby.
You've shared that before.
IIUC, under current law in a number of states those D&Cs wouldn't be allowed unless or until she went septic.
We were in Japan and she had Japanese Doctors in a Japanese hospital. Hopefully, they didn't screw it up, but now you got me thinking maybe they did.
Not at all. D&C is the proper medical treatment for miscarriage. It's also a procedure used for elective abortion. Hence, the procedure is prohibited even when medically appropriate. The patient needs to be deemed to be in grave danger before doctors are confident they won't be prosecuted.
Before advocating for federal law, we must first consider whether there is federal authority for such a law. That’s neither liberal or conservative, it’s about the fuckin organic law.
@co-hoosier S.Ct. passed. State issue. Fine with. But it opens the door for lunatic Dems to be lunatic Dems.
so now a chic can go in at full term and tell her loony doc oh my god I messed up. I messed up! I just got into bc and I can’t do this. I can’t let it ruin my life. And now without a medical necessity complete trust is reposed in this goofy shitlib dr to say we can abort. Opioids for the baby. Uncertain effectiveness. And start the killin. Uncertainty as to what baby feels
did you ever imagine we’d have anything as despicable as the Dem party? In 35 years of politics I never thought we’d have anything like Dems today
Before advocating for federal law, we must first consider whether there is federal authority for such a law. That’s neither liberal or conservative, it’s about the fuckin organic law.
Why didn’t you object to the GOP’s numerous attempts to pass a nationwide late-term abortion ban?
Goat's post was a good one. He admits the complicated nature.@goat no there is a viable place. 22 weeks. After the test that rules out downs structural problems etc. the prior law. and there’s an absolute distinction. Pain. Viability. On and on. Your post is vapid goat. You’re better than that post. Full term is simply murdering a viable human that is susceptible to pain bc you’re a POS human who found a pos quack
You've posited some good points one could objectively try to determine: ability to feel pain and viability. There are probably more, other than leaving the birthing canal (which seems silly distinction to me).
@bradstevens no. This isn’t a matter of first impression. These are issues that have been studied for some time. this isn’t some academic morality discussion we’re only learning about now as you and goat apparently want to play profs with. It’s absurd. We KNOW what the tests reveal. When they reveal them. We know what pain meds are administered. We don’t know exactly what the baby feels but we suspect pain that only gets worse with time and obviously know the reason THEBABY is provided with pain meds. Not just mom. The baby. Third trimester. Stress response. Pain. There’s zero reason for the law post 24 weeks save a lefty lunacy signal
some things are clear. This is one. The law is deplorable. We don’t need some esoteric morality bullshit discussion to try to obfuscate what’s patent. Late term is cruel and evil and the law sets no standards. It’s the government sanctioned murder of a viable baby in a method that causes pain.
I don’t understand what pain has to do with anything. A healthy fetus experiences all sorts of pains, existing in a compressed liquid state getting pushed around, and father orgasming on and into it and so forth and so on, mother, bumping against counters. And the birth canal process of childbirth is excruciatingly painful.
@hhlurker no there’s a developmental temporal framework when they begin to experience stress and pain. Below is the AMA standard. Removing the qualifiers and leaving it to discretion is absurd in mass. A number of Dems broke ranks and voted against the amendment to the existing law. This is one of those where a 39 week human being needs society to stand up for it
https://policysearch.ama-assn.org/policyfinder/detail/*?uri=%2FAMADoc%2FHOD.xml-0-4533.xml