@tjinman1987 A few guys who can actually play defense would be nice as well.
@mushroomgod A coach's record isn't more impressive because they win a couple games, in one season, in the NCAA. Archie was not more impressive than CDD, coming in to IU. DeVries had a much better winning percentage, made 3 NCAA tournaments, which means winning 3 conf tourneys. Archie had that one Elite 8 run, that makes him better? He lost in the first round his last two years at Dayton, with teams many thought should have been 2nd weekend teams. And Drake was one of the bottom half programs in the Valley when he took it over, while Archie took over a relatively strong Dayton program. And when DeVries took Drake over, he didn't have the "instant success" magic pills of NIL/Portal, like coaches have today. He immediately made them a Valley competitor. Isn't that what we're wanting out of him at IU? Without NIL/Portal dynamics, its all relative. The challenge is just as difficult at Drake, if not MORE difficult, than it was to instantly make IU a B10 contender.
You're basically not being serious in his evaluation if you don't give him credit for being a good coach before he arrived at IU.
You're moving the goalposts. You were trying to defend your assessment that he is (not was) a "very good" coach. Not that he was a good coach relative to MVC competitors.
As for DeVries v. Archie.....DeVries, during his 6 years at Drake, played a total of 10 power 5 teams. He went 1-9 in those games. His only win was over KSU in 2020. He was 1-3 in the tourney, if you count the play-in game. He was 0-3 in the Round of 64.
Miller did get beat twice as a favorite...his last 2 years. He was 4-4. In '13-14 as a #11 seed he beat the #5, #3, and #10 seeds and lost to #1 Florida by 62-52. In '14-15, as a #11 seed, he beat #6 Providence by 13 points, and lost to #2 Oklahoma.
In '15-16, as a #7 seed, he lost to #10 Syracuse, who later beat #1 Florida to get to the FF. His only bad loss was to Wichita St in '16-17, as a #7 seed.
In 6 seasons at Drake, CDD played a total of 7 P5 teams during the regular season. The other 3 he played in those 6 years were in the tourney. in Miller's last 2 years alone, he played, in the regular season, Alabama twice, St Mary's (then #17), Nebraska, Northwestern, Vanderbilt twice, and Arkansas. So 7 in 2 regular seasons, 8 if you count a ranked St Mary's team. DeVries teams always played crap schedules. Let's look at '19-'20, shall we?: Kinnesaw St; Cincy; Kansas City; Simpson; Lehigh; Miami OH (lost 59-67); Northeastern; Murray St; Milwaukee; SE Mo. St; Mount Mary; Air Force. And one other team: Dayton on 12/14/19, post Archie. He lost 78-47.
As for Dayton, Miller's record was better than the coach before him, and is better than the coach after him. The same cannot be said for Doorknob. In 7 seasons since he left, Dayton has gone to the tourney 1 time.
@gthomas Those UNF guys are "volume shooters." Kind of like my golf game as I got older, I became a volume shooter. I take more shots.
It looks like IU hired a worse Archie. They learned nothing from their past mistakes. For their next coach, watch them hire another NBA retread. And so the cycle continues.
Do we even know if IU will have an increased NIL budget this year?
I don't think DD is the answer either, but c'mon.It looks like IU hired a worse Archie.
Reality is IU has not been good in basketball for many years. High school and collegiate players do not see the program as a very relevant one. The 2025/26 season marks the 18th year since the beginning of the Crean era in 2008/09 and only four teams have been able to earn winning Big 10 Conference records over this time. Crean coached 3 of those teams and Woodson one. Low chance for DeVries to break into the winning conference column this year as he needs to win the next three for an 11-9 conference record.
Carr and DeVries have their work cut out to bring in players that can compete at a high level. Last year demonstrated merely throwing a bag of money to win the bidding war is not going to lead to success. Having a mid-major all star team in most cases also will not produce great results. You can have mid-majors that believe in the coaching philosophy but if these guys lack the talent and there's not an exceptional coach to lead, mediocrity can be expected.
I don't have any answers but am hoping Carr and DeVries can build a stronger roster for next season. Watch an elite team play such as Duke, Michigan, UCONN, Arizona, etc. play and it's obvious Indiana is light years away in talent and the game it plays.
Indiana last made an appearance to the Élite 8 in 2002. Since that time USA Today reports, 60 different teams have made at least one trip to the Elite 8. Indiana has failed to join the ranks of Dayton, Loyola Chicago, Florida Atlantic, Kent State, Davidson, and Saint Peter's.
Most players in the portal do not recognize Indiana as a top program. The dusty banners in Assembly Hall are only relics of a glorious past. What can DeVries offer potential portal recruits? More NIL money? A favorable coaching and playing style leading to development? Greater potential playing time? Connections to the NBA with Carr?
Something will need to click in the Portal Kombat war, as a couple battles need be won to get a few high quality players to become Hoosiers.
@bigmike Players with pro aspirations are looking for a place to showcase what they can do. IU is still a B1G School with a lot of TV visibility, and has playing time against quality opponents to offer in addition to good, if not the best, NIL resources. NBA scouts don't care about how recently the program won a title.
@bigmike Players with pro aspirations are looking for a place to showcase what they can do. IU is still a B1G School with a lot of TV visibility, and has playing time against quality opponents to offer in addition to good, if not the best, NIL resources. NBA scouts don't care about how recently the program won a title.
they need a system and a coach who can help showcase their talents.
Absolutely! DeVries is going to need to convince recruits he is the man able to bring out the best in a player.@bigmike Players with pro aspirations are looking for a place to showcase what they can do. IU is still a B1G School with a lot of TV visibility, and has playing time against quality opponents to offer in addition to good, if not the best, NIL resources. NBA scouts don't care about how recently the program won a title.
they need a system and a coach who can help showcase their talents.
Absolutely! DeVries is going to need to convince recruits he is the man able to bring out the best in a player.@bigmike Players with pro aspirations are looking for a place to showcase what they can do. IU is still a B1G School with a lot of TV visibility, and has playing time against quality opponents to offer in addition to good, if not the best, NIL resources. NBA scouts don't care about how recently the program won a title.
they need a system and a coach who can help showcase their talents.
Yeah , don't hold your breath on that one
@mushroomgod Yeah... no chit... he was coaching at Drake, and not Dayton. In his first year at WVU, he played and beat plenty of high major teams... obviously. I guess since you're not grasping the relative nature to the programs they were coaching... lets just compare their IU to IU performances... CDD inherited one incoming recruit from Woodson, and nothing else. Miller inherited a decent "core" in Morgan, Johnson, Davis, Green, Newkirk... probably a recruit or two. And CDD has Indiana in a position where it could accomplish, in his first year, what Miller might have only done in his 3rd year. CDD had the benefit of the portal, and NIL... obviously. But does that supersede him having to build an entire roster, in 2-3 months, in an offseason where portal dynamics got markedly more difficult??
And for the record, I don't like even entertaining the thought of comparing an IU coach to Archie. And to your point, the results are close enough that it probably is a fair comparison, at this point. But Archie was not a better coach coming in to IU, or in his first season at IU, than CDD was and is. If for no other reason than Archie was a sour, a-hole, that hurt relationships and set IU basketball back. Despite the uneven play this year, I don't think CDD is in the process of setting IU back like Archie, and then Woodson, did. I guess time will tell on that.
Got the two extreme contrasts with Cignetti and DeVries. Cig has a long track of player improvement. He can point to many success stories. In the case of DeVries, he's going to need to do a big time sales job to show a player what he will do to get them to the next level.Absolutely! DeVries is going to need to convince recruits he is the man able to bring out the best in a player.@bigmike Players with pro aspirations are looking for a place to showcase what they can do. IU is still a B1G School with a lot of TV visibility, and has playing time against quality opponents to offer in addition to good, if not the best, NIL resources. NBA scouts don't care about how recently the program won a title.
they need a system and a coach who can help showcase their talents.
Yeah , don't hold your breath on that one
@bigmike I thought it was all about money? Players still care about development? Maybe a few, but most in the portal mate there for the cash
@ge-off I think this is the challenge for CDD and Carr... find guys that you know will play to their value, but not focus solely on the money. For the elite guys, their focus should be about improving, helping the team win, and putting themselves in a great position to be drafted. For the mid level guys, winning and improving. There's nothing wrong with players knowing their value, and their worth, and demanding that initially. But CDD and Carr need to be smoking out how the guys they're evaluating are wired. The ones we want, want to get paid, but want to earn that money, and put themselves in a position to make more.