@mushroomgod I'm definitely saying "who the heck is this guy?" with Moboko.
He wasn't good enough to go to the trouble of memorizing his name......
@mushroomgod Because his history before IU says he's a very good basketball coach. And despite all the crappy stuff that I've written recently, he does have this IU team as a "top 40" metrics team, and he built it from scratch less than a year ago. And before anyone responds with..."its a new world, it doesn't take multiple years any more..." Actually, it still usually does. Obviously some coaches have had instant success. But many, many more haven't. So at a minimum, from a pure metrics and wins standpoint, he's doing a decent job. But before IU... he was quite a lot better than "decent"...
He inherited a dormant Drake program, and built it to one of the top programs in the Valley, arguably one of the top small college programs in the country. He didn't have NIL, or facilities advantages, or much of anything... its basically not possible to do that, at a place like Drake, if you're not a very good basketball coach. Then he took over a West Virginia program that was at the bottom of the B12, and made them competitive in one of the better conferences in the country, in his first year, without his two best players for most of the year. If one can't acknowledge that he's proven he's a very good basketball coach, then that person's arguments against his abilities to get IU going are much less credible, in my opinion.
Now... at IU... he's adding to his resume. His record before IU, as I typed above, is impressive, but its not perfect. And there are red flags he brings with him. And those are starting to wave a little more prominently, for me, than they did earlier in the year. But they don't erase the good things he's done in his career.
I am not as impressed with his time at Drake as you. He did make it to 3 NCAA tourneys but lost in the round of 64 each time. His first year he tied for the league championship. They went to the CIT to Southern Utah. In '21-22 they were the top seed in the CBI tourney and lost in the 2nd game. Imo, he never had anything close to a 'great' team. His last 3 years weren't appreciably better than his first 3 years. Then McCollum comes in after he's gone and goes 31-4 and wins his first game in the tourney. That's why when most fans looked at the hire they were not impressed.
You also make it sound like Drake is basketball hell. From '67 through '69 they were in 2 EEs and 1 FF. The '67 team lost to Lou Alcinder (you might know him by another name)'s team by 3 points. And then they beat North Carolina by 20 in the consolation game.
Do you consider Archie Miller to be a great coach? Because his record at Dayton was more impressive than that of CDD. But based on what we saw with our own eyes we say he sucked.
How would you feel about a portal class that began with Belmont forward Sam Orme (Carmel native) and Duke guard Darren Harris? Both names were mentioned earlier on this thread and there have been rumors in a few different places that if those two portal, IU would be a contender for both. A refresher, Harris was a four-star recruit from Fairfax and he played for Team Takeover and Paul VI Catholic. Current IU commit Prince Alexander-Moody played in that same league (Washington Catholic Athletic Conference) and for the same AAU program and Kenny Johnson is very connected with Team Takeover. He has not played much for Duke in his two seasons in Durham but he is a fringe piece of the rotation this season but he's playing behind really good players like Isaiah Evans and Caleb Foster. Orme was a player IU was monitoring before he chose Belmont and he's played well for the Bruins.
-Harris - 6'6" with two years left - 4.1 BPM, form on his perimeter shot looks great and he was known as a prolific shooter in HS, I'm watching games of him now but he looks like a more well-rounded version of Nick Dorn at first glance.
-Orme - 6'9" stretch 4 with two years left - 6.2 BPM and 5.41 BPR (third best in the Missouri Valley). 38.1% from 3 on good volume, decent athlete, 74% as a finisher at the rim
IU might not get these two guys but I think they'll have a really good chance at them both, at least as of now.
@mushroomgod A coach's record isn't more impressive because they win a couple games, in one season, in the NCAA. Archie was not more impressive than CDD, coming in to IU. DeVries had a much better winning percentage, made 3 NCAA tournaments, which means winning 3 conf tourneys. Archie had that one Elite 8 run, that makes him better? He lost in the first round his last two years at Dayton, with teams many thought should have been 2nd weekend teams. And Drake was one of the bottom half programs in the Valley when he took it over, while Archie took over a relatively strong Dayton program. And when DeVries took Drake over, he didn't have the "instant success" magic pills of NIL/Portal, like coaches have today. He immediately made them a Valley competitor. Isn't that what we're wanting out of him at IU? Without NIL/Portal dynamics, its all relative. The challenge is just as difficult at Drake, if not MORE difficult, than it was to instantly make IU a B10 contender.
You're basically not being serious in his evaluation if you don't give him credit for being a good coach before he arrived at IU.
You also make it sound like Drake is basketball hell. From '67 through '69 they were in 2 EEs and 1 FF. The '67 team lost to Lou Alcinder (you might know him by another name)'s team by 3 points. And then they beat North Carolina by 20 in the consolation game.
Do you consider Archie Miller to be a great coach? Because his record at Dayton was more impressive than that of CDD. But based on what we saw with our own eyes we say he sucked.
The 60s? Drake went to 1 NCAAT after 71 before DDV. They had not been in for the prior 13 years when he went 3/6. Dayton has been a much more consistent NCAAT team.
I'd like to see IU focus MUCH more on highly-ranked players from elite programs. There are many guys like that who just aren't getting minutes at the Dukes of the world ... but have the ability/potential to ball out.
Right now, IU only has guys from mid-major programs (I count DePaul and WVU among those). That cannot be the Portal focus for next season. A few high-level MM players is fine, but not 12 of them.
@mushroomgod Because his history before IU says he's a very good basketball coach. And despite all the crappy stuff that I've written recently, he does have this IU team as a "top 40" metrics team, and he built it from scratch less than a year ago. And before anyone responds with..."its a new world, it doesn't take multiple years any more..." Actually, it still usually does. Obviously some coaches have had instant success. But many, many more haven't. So at a minimum, from a pure metrics and wins standpoint, he's doing a decent job. But before IU... he was quite a lot better than "decent"...
He inherited a dormant Drake program, and built it to one of the top programs in the Valley, arguably one of the top small college programs in the country. He didn't have NIL, or facilities advantages, or much of anything... its basically not possible to do that, at a place like Drake, if you're not a very good basketball coach. Then he took over a West Virginia program that was at the bottom of the B12, and made them competitive in one of the better conferences in the country, in his first year, without his two best players for most of the year. If one can't acknowledge that he's proven he's a very good basketball coach, then that person's arguments against his abilities to get IU going are much less credible, in my opinion.
Now... at IU... he's adding to his resume. His record before IU, as I typed above, is impressive, but its not perfect. And there are red flags he brings with him. And those are starting to wave a little more prominently, for me, than they did earlier in the year. But they don't erase the good things he's done in his career.
I am not as impressed with his time at Drake as you. He did make it to 3 NCAA tourneys but lost in the round of 64 each time. His first year he tied for the league championship. They went to the CIT to Southern Utah. In '21-22 they were the top seed in the CBI tourney and lost in the 2nd game. Imo, he never had anything close to a 'great' team. His last 3 years weren't appreciably better than his first 3 years. Then McCollum comes in after he's gone and goes 31-4 and wins his first game in the tourney. That's why when most fans looked at the hire they were not impressed.
You also make it sound like Drake is basketball hell. From '67 through '69 they were in 2 EEs and 1 FF. The '67 team lost to Lou Alcinder (you might know him by another name)'s team by 3 points. And then they beat North Carolina by 20 in the consolation game.
Do you consider Archie Miller to be a great coach? Because his record at Dayton was more impressive than that of CDD. But based on what we saw with our own eyes we say he sucked.
for kicks and giggles I asked AI to compare Dusty May (when Michigan hired him) to Miller (when IU hired him).
What happened with Miller? IU fans will say that because he didn’t have success after IU, that it somehow proves he wasn’t a good coach. WRONG. It only proves he wasn’t a good coach after he left IU.
I’m pretty confident Dusty May is sleeping just fine knowing he’s not at IU.
In the meantime we keep reading war and peace length posts talking about how it’s a fact that we have a good coach (whatever that even means). Yep, just like we had a good coach in Miller.
I'd like to see IU focus MUCH more on highly-ranked players from elite programs. There are many guys like that who just aren't getting minutes at the Dukes of the world ... but have the ability/potential to ball out.
Right now, IU only has guys from mid-major programs (I count DePaul and WVU among those). That cannot be the Portal focus for next season. A few high-level MM players is fine, but not 12 of them.
I'd agree. Sounds like we're after Harris from Duke, potentially. Numbers don't standout but its much different being on the bench at Duke behind 50 five-stars then the current IU rotation.
@tjinman1987 As a safe answer I would be OK with Harris and Orme added to the roster for 2026/27 as long as IU can also get a quality high profile PG, stretch 4 and a 2 proven bigs that have demonstrated success playing at a power conference level. Many of us were quite pleased with Woodson's last portal group and we know how that turned out. On the coming April venture into the portal I'm going to have to trust Carr, DeVries and his coaches to improve upon the roster build of last year. Harris has a much higher pedigree than Nick Dorn coming out of high school. As a member of the Duke powerhouse, being able to break into the 8 man rotation has not been easy. Orme looks like a good bench piece but I'm not certain how well his game would work in the Big 10.
Many of us fans are like kids with a long Christmas list. We probably aren't going to get everything we want from the portal. The IU staff may well look long and hard outside the US pool of players to be creative. Should be a fun and interesting April when the staff builds the roster for the coming season.
@surjay The profile of Harris makes a lot of sense for IU and yes, Indiana needs a higher median talent level. HS recruiting rankings are certainly not everything, particularly when IU brought in portal prospects that were several years removed from high school. That written, it shows on the floor that IU is relying on guys that were either 0 to 2-star recruits plus Trent Sisley (4-star). I'd be very surprised if the coaching staff did not rely on a much more balanced mix of high-major players with potentially high ceilings plus mid-major guys from places like Belmont during this cycle while beginning to add more four-star talent like the three incoming freshmen.
I sure hope so. I've only watched Harris play a few times--and his numbers ain't great--but I've seen enough to know he's pretty talented. I don't know if he'll translate into a high-caliber college player, but the potential is there.Sounds like we're after Harris from Duke,
@tjinman1987 I love my alma mater, but if DD brings in another UNF guy next season I'll lose my shit.
I'd be thrilled if IU drops some major bank on a stud PG and C and builds from there. The current roster is meh, but imagine if the Hoosiers had a high-level PG and C instead of CE and RB. I'm not saying two guys would've made IU a world-beater, but they wouldn't be anywhere near the Bubble, imo.
I know this thread is about portal but CDD is on record saying he prefer to build his roster from high school up. I don't know if he still feels that way after this season but hopefully his eyes have been fully opened to the types of players he needs to be competitive in the conference. I don't think he'll get the luxury of taking a few more years to build up a roster from primarily high school recruiting.
@gthomas I agree with that...if the Hoosiers want to compete, they'll need to either develop a top-end point (and there are no returning candidates for that, obviously) OR pay the going rate to bring one in.
As a hypothetical, if Tayton Conerway was swapped out for Kylan Boswell and Reed Bailey or Sam Alexis was swapped out for say...Morez Johnson...yes, IU is very safely in the field.