@openwheel He's made a handful of sideline type catches, where he's gotten his feet down very well. He's an elite level receiver, without question. The touchdown catch he made earlier in the 4th quarter, not a lot of guys finish that play. I don't know what to attribute the "mis step" on the last play. Best guess is he relaxed, and thought he had more room than he did, instead of exaggerating his feet inside, or dragging his inside foot. It would have made the catching part of the play more difficult, but he's capable of that. I also think its a possibility he "felt" like he had made the clean catch, and at that point he's a runner, heading in to the endzone, so all he had to do was cross the goal line inside the pylon. But as he stepped he looked down and realized too late? Very weird play. Its kind of like making a series of tough moves to get to the rim in basketball, and then relaxing and biffing the layup. It happens. Just gets amplified by a million in that situation. He's good enough, that I doubt it happens again. And doubt it even more if its a late game situation again.
That's how I saw the play as well.
It was almost like he couldn't believe how open he was and relaxed to catch the ball.
Super weird play indeed.
But it wasn't an overly tough catch, for a great receiver
Think you're underselling the difficulty of that catch. The ball is floating and he has to keep his eyes on it, so it was a long time that he couldn't have looked at the line for reference. Yes, I think it's his job to get his foot inbounds, but the ball could have been thrown earlier or flatter and it's getting to him quicker and then it truly is not a difficult catch and a TD. I felt like Cig was directly commenting on it when he said it's the QBs job to deliver the ball on time, accurately and as quickly as possible.
EDIT, rewatched it and his eyes are focused on the ball from around the 5 yard line on. That's a lot of steps to take along the sideline without being able to look at the line again to correct. Partly on Marsh and partly on Hoover. But, the bottom line is, if we keep putting ourselves in the position to have to make plays at the end to win a game, ultimately it will, and did, catch up to us. Lots of problems that could have gotten us points, or kept OSU from them prior to this play, that would have made it irrelevant and that should be the teams focus.
I'm 100% sure any player would and should take responsibility for any play. Hes a great kid doing what great teammates do. That doesn't remove common sense from the equation.
Was it a worse throw than the throw by Mendoza to Cooper Jr. at Penn St? The Penn State catch took a heroic effort to get a toe down, and he even got both feet down.. This one just required a little more awareness. Could it have been a better throw? Sure. But with the heat on him, Hoover got it out where Nick would catch it and get his feet in, 9 times out of 10.
ha Oh lord, I've seen many people say the opposite so thats lame to use that as your justification.
A few things when comparing it to Omar Cooper Jr.'s catch. You agree that it was not expected of Omar to make that play, it was literally an amazing feat on this part, right? Had he not made that catch, was he to blame? Of course not. Mendoza also made a perfect throw, right? No excuses about pressure in his face?
In either case, that play was a different set of circumstances. Mendoza threw it to the only spot he could in order to get it to Cooper, with pressure in his face, yet still made the best throw he could have. From there, its on Cooper to try his best to make that play he could have. Omar was almost running parallel with the backline, so he had a great idea of where he was up until he jumped. Marsh ran 10 yards without being able to take his eyes of the ball. He was running north and looking south. Meanwhile, Hoover had a MASSIVE area to throw to from not that far away. It's always on the QB to lead the receiver away from big hits, and into the open space. That did not happen here. He was led out of bounds. It's not a matter of debate, just fact.
@openwheel He's made a handful of sideline type catches, where he's gotten his feet down very well. He's an elite level receiver, without question. The touchdown catch he made earlier in the 4th quarter, not a lot of guys finish that play. I don't know what to attribute the "mis step" on the last play. Best guess is he relaxed, and thought he had more room than he did, instead of exaggerating his feet inside, or dragging his inside foot. It would have made the catching part of the play more difficult, but he's capable of that. I also think its a possibility he "felt" like he had made the clean catch, and at that point he's a runner, heading in to the endzone, so all he had to do was cross the goal line inside the pylon. But as he stepped he looked down and realized too late? Very weird play. Its kind of like making a series of tough moves to get to the rim in basketball, and then relaxing and biffing the layup. It happens. Just gets amplified by a million in that situation. He's good enough, that I doubt it happens again. And doubt it even more if its a late game situation again.
That's how I saw the play as well.
It was almost like he couldn't believe how open he was and relaxed to catch the ball.
Super weird play indeed.
I agree. The reason he was so shocked was because he assumed his QB wouldn't throw it out of bounds. It didn't even cross his mind that would happen which is why when he saw his feet, he was caught off guard. He clearly has the talent to make that play, I'd like to hope thats not the question. He just didn't think it was necessary until he looked down and saw the pass was throw out of bounds.
I feel Omar's TD at PSU was achievable, Marsh's was equally achievable. Honestly think Marsh relaxed and loosened his concentration. His reaction is what sold me.
Would it be acceptable if Hoover had 8 less inaccurate passes and an additional 4 interceptions? To me that's a coin flipper/head scratcher.
On the scoreboard the Buckeyes had more points. But they certainly didn't beat IU.
Because he made it look effortless I guess.Think you're underselling the difficulty of that catch
Needed a bit more effort.
Because he made it look effortless I guess.Think you're underselling the difficulty of that catch
Needed a bit more effort.
If you are running into a wide-open end zone, it is an effortless catch. It only becomes labeled as lacking effort because he has to correct a mistake that was made on the throw. Hard to know there is a mistake when your looking backwards.
He needs to think more clearly then.The reason he was so shocked was because he assumed his QB wouldn't throw it out of bounds.
Hoover threw that ball before he had much time to see if Marsh burned the guy or was only going to be a bit clear of him. Can't risk an under throw there. Can't risk it OB either. And it wasn't. It dropped nearly perfectly. Damn good throw. No catch.
But obviously we won't change anybody's mind now. Nor does it matter.
Hoover did likely play worse than Marsh on some plays. Not sure on a couple of the throws to nobody who's fault.
He needs to think more clearly then.The reason he was so shocked was because he assumed his QB wouldn't throw it out of bounds.
Hoover threw that ball before he had much time to see if Marsh burned the guy or was only going to be a bit clear of him. Can't risk an under throw there. Can't risk it OB either. And it wasn't. It dropped nearly perfectly. Damn good throw. No catch.
But obviously we won't change anybody's mind now. Nor does it matter.
Hoover did likely play worse than Marsh on some plays. Not sure on a couple of the throws to nobody who's fault.
When Hoover released the ball, Marsh was past his defender and his defender was still facing Hoover. ha The play was intended to be a fade on 4th down. You don't need it to be a sideline throw. Just put it in the air in the middle of the endzone. Its not that its easy to do, but its vastly easier than expecting Marsh to make double move, sprint forward, look backwards, make an over the shoulder catch while also toing the sideline. lol Clearly, Hoover had the easer of the 2 jobs. Hoover knew where he had to go with it before he took the snap and simply just had to wait as long as he could before he threw it. That was it.
@openwheel Do me a favor. Go out in a parking lot, draw a line 10 yards long, stand with your outside foot 5" from the line and sprint along it, looking back over your shoulder at the sky the entire way and post the video on youtube. If you can do it 9/10 times without stepping on the line (or falling down!), then I'll agree it was a simple catch and 100% on Marsh. I'm not even asking you to do it with a defender there, and a ball in the air, let alone a big game's outcome riding on it. Could he have made the catch: yes, but it was far from routine and would have been much easier if it was thrown earlier, or flatter or 6" to the right.
Good enough ball. Marsh easily could get the left foot in. It’s over. Let’s win out.
https://twitter.com/dannykanell/status/2112235825585119352?s=46
@bradstevens - Do you see all that red and white to the right of Marsh, that throw easily could've been in there and as we saw, Marsh does catch the ball. Realize, Marsh is way further inbounds when the ball is throw, Marsh has to run way to the left unnecessarily to catch it. Lead the receiver to the open space, don't add an additional defender aka out bounds line. Either way, the catch was made, the throw was just out of bounds. Lets win out!
@bradstevens So that's 2 QB's who say it was the receivers fault and 1 QB (Hoover), who says it was at least partly his fault, and a former backup QB (some guy named Cignetti) who says it's the QB's job to deliver the ball accurately, on time and as early as possible. Call it a push?
Not that it matters, but your reputation is taking a beating with me with each and every post on this topic. It was a bang-bang play. Hardly an easy throw to make right as you're about to get blasted. Also hardly easy to watch the ball in for that long and maintain your path. Impossible? Far from it.@bradstevens - Do you see all that red and white to the right of Marsh, that throw easily could've been in there and as we saw, Marsh does catch the ball. Realize, Marsh is way further inbounds when the ball is throw, Marsh has to run way to the left unnecessarily to catch it. Lead the receiver to the open space, don't add an additional defender aka out bounds line. Either way, the catch was made, the throw was just out of bounds. Lets win out!
Maybe log off for a bit and focus on something more positive. This horse is dead and we can't go back and change the outcome.
Good enough ball. Marsh easily could get the left foot in. It’s over. Let’s win out.
https://twitter.com/dannykanell/status/2112235825585119352?s=46
https://twitter.com/ZachOsterman/status/2112214443891265564?s=20