This guy tracks data about religion and writes about it. Lots of data in the article below, lots of ways to interpret it. But I found this thesis interesting: among people leaving religion--obviously up a lot over the last 50 years, the people leaving their religion was a political act--driven by differing political worldviews--further in the past. Over the last few decades, though, it looks like young people are leaving less and less for political reasons, they just stop attending. His framing: The first wave left with conviction. The second wave just drifted out the door.
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-first-wave-left-with-conviction
I'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
@bradstevens Losing My Religion! Just stopped going. Anecdotally I feel like my friends and their families are going more than ever.
to hijack your thread I’ve been getting into these conspiracy theories. They’re pretty wild. And some pushed by our own elected reps. A few. That aliens are already here. That some are just us 500k years into the future. String theory other dimensions stuff. And the gov will release soon blah blah blah. But the alleged reluctance is what disclosure would do to religions. Oh and the Vatican is aware
Alien?
.
This guy tracks data about religion and writes about it. Lots of data in the article below, lots of ways to interpret it. But I found this thesis interesting: among people leaving religion--obviously up a lot over the last 50 years, the people leaving their religion was a political act--driven by differing political worldviews--further in the past. Over the last few decades, though, it looks like young people are leaving less and less for political reasons, they just stop attending. His framing: The first wave left with conviction. The second wave just drifted out the door.
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-first-wave-left-with-conviction
I'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
The trend, at least with US Catholicism, seems to be the other way.
Possible reasons: young adults "searching for more" including social connections; a perceived "vacuum of moral authority in public life;" Robert Prevost's election to the papacy; Charlie (had begun praying the rosary, expressing devotion to Mary and thought to be considering Catholic baptism at the end of his life) and Erika (Catholic) Kirk; Catholic convert JD Vance; and - - gasp - immigration.
‘Something’s Happening’: Catholic Converts Surge in Many U.S. Dioceses| National Catholic Register
Catholic conversions rising: Inside the Catholic Church's quiet revival - CBS News
Because religion is inconvenient. Just like unexpected pregnancies are inconvenient and pretty much all the people closest to you in life are the most inconvenient.
A culture of convenience is an anti-human culture.
Its an interesting thesis.Because religion is inconvenient. Just like unexpected pregnancies are inconvenient and pretty much all the people closest to you in life are the most inconvenient.
A culture of convenience is an anti-human culture.
Isn’t a lot of PC and woke culture also inconvenient? Why do people buy into that if the driver here is society’s decreasing tolerance for inconvenience?
@bradstevens Losing My Religion! Just stopped going. Anecdotally I feel like my friends and their families are going more than ever.
to hijack your thread I’ve been getting into these conspiracy theories. They’re pretty wild. And some pushed by our own elected reps. A few. That aliens are already here. That some are just us 500k years into the future. String theory other dimensions stuff. And the gov will release soon blah blah blah. But the alleged reluctance is what disclosure would do to religions. Oh and the Vatican is aware
Aliens are already here. That's not a conspiracy.
This guy tracks data about religion and writes about it. Lots of data in the article below, lots of ways to interpret it. But I found this thesis interesting: among people leaving religion--obviously up a lot over the last 50 years, the people leaving their religion was a political act--driven by differing political worldviews--further in the past. Over the last few decades, though, it looks like young people are leaving less and less for political reasons, they just stop attending. His framing: The first wave left with conviction. The second wave just drifted out the door.
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-first-wave-left-with-conviction
I'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
This is an easy one. It's because of dirty, disgusting, devil fiat money. I'll send you a bill later for my services. snarlcakes needs more sats.
This guy tracks data about religion and writes about it. Lots of data in the article below, lots of ways to interpret it. But I found this thesis interesting: among people leaving religion--obviously up a lot over the last 50 years, the people leaving their religion was a political act--driven by differing political worldviews--further in the past. Over the last few decades, though, it looks like young people are leaving less and less for political reasons, they just stop attending. His framing: The first wave left with conviction. The second wave just drifted out the door.
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-first-wave-left-with-conviction
I'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
I'm busy and only had time to scan it. Does it try a control for the change in demographics over the past 60ish years? Around 25-30ish% of the people living in the U.S today didn't have ancestors here in the 50-60s.
This guy tracks data about religion and writes about it. Lots of data in the article below, lots of ways to interpret it. But I found this thesis interesting: among people leaving religion--obviously up a lot over the last 50 years, the people leaving their religion was a political act--driven by differing political worldviews--further in the past. Over the last few decades, though, it looks like young people are leaving less and less for political reasons, they just stop attending. His framing: The first wave left with conviction. The second wave just drifted out the door.
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-first-wave-left-with-conviction
I'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
I'm busy and only had time to scan it. Does it try a control for the change in demographics over the past 60ish years? Around 25-30ish% of the people living in the U.S today didn't have ancestors here in the 50-60s.
Got a source for that 25-30% figure?
That seems almost mathematically not possible.
This guy tracks data about religion and writes about it. Lots of data in the article below, lots of ways to interpret it. But I found this thesis interesting: among people leaving religion--obviously up a lot over the last 50 years, the people leaving their religion was a political act--driven by differing political worldviews--further in the past. Over the last few decades, though, it looks like young people are leaving less and less for political reasons, they just stop attending. His framing: The first wave left with conviction. The second wave just drifted out the door.
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-first-wave-left-with-conviction
I'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
I'm busy and only had time to scan it. Does it try a control for the change in demographics over the past 60ish years? Around 25-30ish% of the people living in the U.S today didn't have ancestors here in the 50-60s.
Got a source for that 25-30% figure?
That seems almost mathematically not possible.
.
'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
I'm not sure where I fit in this discussion. Until COVID, I was going to church almost every Sunday. Before we moved to where I currently live, Catholicism was way more a part of my life mostly because my kids were in Catholic schools. My kids were in grade school, but it didn't take much nudging for the kids to want to go to church because that's where they'd see all their friends again and they could hang out and play at the doughnuts and coffee thing afterward.
When we moved here, the wheels sort of came off. Long story short, I never felt at home with the Catholic community here. When I was going through divorce my dad really pushed me to talk to one of the priests here and that didn't go well at all. To be honest, I'm kind of looking forward to moving eventually so I can find a better Catholic community. I've never considered actually leaving the church, though in the last couple years for the first time I haven't been going regularly. I feel fortunate to grow up the way I did and most of my role models growing up were Catholic teachers, priests, nuns and family members. I'd never turn my back on them.
I sort of agree with @carramrod here. Whenever I hear friends say they're leaving the church or have left the church I think to myself that's too easy of a 'protest' or whatever it is they're trying to do. It's not really hard to just stop going to church because of some flag you want to plant. People will threaten to leave the country over an election or political stance, but realize that would be a hard fundamental change. "Leaving" your religion for most people is just not waking up early on Sundays anymore.
That sucks you lost the sense of community you previously had.'d be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
I'm not sure where I fit in this discussion. Until COVID, I was going to church almost every Sunday. Before we moved to where I currently live, Catholicism was way more a part of my life mostly because my kids were in Catholic schools. My kids were in grade school, but it didn't take much nudging for the kids to want to go to church because that's where they'd see all their friends again and they could hang out and play at the doughnuts and coffee thing afterward.
When we moved here, the wheels sort of came off. Long story short, I never felt at home with the Catholic community here. When I was going through divorce my dad really pushed me to talk to one of the priests here and that didn't go well at all. To be honest, I'm kind of looking forward to moving eventually so I can find a better Catholic community. I've never considered actually leaving the church, though in the last couple years for the first time I haven't been going regularly. I feel fortunate to grow up the way I did and most of my role models growing up were Catholic teachers, priests, nuns and family members. I'd never turn my back on them.
I sort of agree with @carramrod here. Whenever I hear friends say they're leaving the church or have left the church I think to myself that's too easy of a 'protest' or whatever it is they're trying to do. It's not really hard to just stop going to church because of some flag you want to plant. People will threaten to leave the country over an election or political stance, but realize that would be a hard fundamental change. "Leaving" your religion for most people is just not waking up early on Sundays anymore.
Your last couple of sentences seem to confirm that most (not all) people are faux religious. I think that's exactly right.
Not really. New converts are up, but the cradle Catholics are exiting at much larger numbers: 8 to 1 against.This guy tracks data about religion and writes about it. Lots of data in the article below, lots of ways to interpret it. But I found this thesis interesting: among people leaving religion--obviously up a lot over the last 50 years, the people leaving their religion was a political act--driven by differing political worldviews--further in the past. Over the last few decades, though, it looks like young people are leaving less and less for political reasons, they just stop attending. His framing: The first wave left with conviction. The second wave just drifted out the door.
https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-first-wave-left-with-conviction
I'd be in the older cohort. I'm not sure I would count--I was raised Catholic but was an atheist by age 12 (in a time when atheism was nowhere near as accepted as now). But I have lots of friends who were also raised Catholic and who say they left the church at various times for "political" reasons, although I suspect their faith had already dissipated before that, and that for a long while, they just associated with Catholicism out of habit or tribal affiliation.
The trend, at least with US Catholicism, seems to be the other way.
Possible reasons: young adults "searching for more" including social connections; a perceived "vacuum of moral authority in public life;" Robert Prevost's election to the papacy; Charlie (had begun praying the rosary, expressing devotion to Mary and thought to be considering Catholic baptism at the end of his life) and Erika (Catholic) Kirk; Catholic convert JD Vance; and - - gasp - immigration.
‘Something’s Happening’: Catholic Converts Surge in Many U.S. Dioceses| National Catholic Register
Catholic conversions rising: Inside the Catholic Church's quiet revival - CBS News
https://crisismagazine.com/editors-desk/is-the-catholic-church-growing-or-shrinking-in-america