More reason everyone should have a Ring doorbell - you can yell at people without ever opening your door.
You can also yell at people by yelling at people, through the door. If the woman knew someone was inside, she would have realized that she was at the wrong address. Or flip on the porch light, though it couldn't have been completely dark if he was telling the truth about going to his window and seeing that they were at his door.
A complete overreaction on the homeowner's part.
Bottom line is any reasonable person would have been able to access the situation (and realize their life wasn't being threatened) without shooting the cleaning lady.
A simple "hey, what are you doing?" through the door would have resolved the issue.
or even "get off my property ya old hag, i gotta gun and not afraid to use it" would have worked too.
Even if she didn't understand English, she likely would realize her mistake when someone was home or by the tone of their voice.
Agree. WAY too rash a response.
He'll get some charge...a manslaughter or reduced murder.
That said, the couple of times I had Mexican guys messing with my locks in the middle of the night...I wasn't necessarily going through a step-by-step moral justification process...
It's pretty daunting when it's dark, you can't see them, you have no idea what they're doing, their trying to gain entry, and they're not speaking English (so you can't even understand if they're asking each other..."is this the right house?"
Things can VERY EASILY go wrong.
@mattndallas I had a neighbor in my condo at west Palm. Guy was a lunatic. He bought up six garage spots in the community for his exotic cars and would spend Saturdays lining them all up to wash them. His gf was a stripper. One morning she walked out to the parking lot and let all of her herbals go. She’d tan at the condo pool in a thong which was entertaining. And he had this crazy portable bar he’d set up. That was entertaining too. Anyway about once every month or so he’d get all fckd up and think my condo was his. About 4 am the door handle would start with his keys fumbling. It hard the fuck out of you. But you don’t just shoot through the door. You yell who is it????!!!
it’s a. Oh uh. Missed my door. Uh. It’s mike.
@mattndallas I had a neighbor in my condo at west Palm. Guy was a lunatic. He bought up six garage spots in the community for his exotic cars and would spend Saturdays lining them all up to wash them. His gf was a stripper. One morning she walked out to the parking lot and let all of her gerbals go. She’d tan at the condo pool in a thong which was entertaining. And he had this crazy portable bar he’d set up. That was entertaining too. Anyway about once every month or so he’d get all fckd up and think my condo was his. About 4 am the door handle would start with his keys fumbling. It scares the fuck out of you. But you don’t just shoot through the door. You yell who is it????!!!
it’s a. Oh uh. Missed my door. Uh. It’s mike.
Uh, I’ve lived in downtown Indy for over 10 years, and worked on the near east side for over 35 years.So, speaking Spanish is a mitigating factor? Maybe he should have called ICE.My only "upfront bias" in this case is that this guy shouldn't be allowed to shoot a woman standing on his porch in broad daylight without announcing himself or giving warning of his intentions.Defense attorney's main task will be weeding snakes like hurryinghoosiers out of the jury box. I believe a guy like Bulk would admit his upfront bias in response to questions, but dishonest people like HH will try to lie to get on the jury to achieve "justice."@bradstevens defense attorney’s first task is to get rid of that middle part
I don't know what to make of the case. The linked story is actually pretty in depth for this stage of a case. I don't know how much changes. Based on it, I personally would have a tough time thinking the guy acted objectively reasonably, but would also have a tough time finding he didn't subjectively fear someone was breaking into his home. A tragedy all around.
I know he probably won't be found guilty, but I hope his guilt is crushing, and he is never allowed, even by his friends, family, and neighbors, to be comfortable with the consequences of his actions.
1. It wasn't in broad daylight, it was around 6:45am...completely dark.
2. She wasn't just "standing on his porch". She had been messing with his front lock, speaking Spanish, for a min or so.
So yes...clearly upfront bias.
That said, WAY to trigger quick. Reminds me a bit of this Dallas case years ago, accept this lady wasn't pounding on the door, or drunk, like Carter Albrecht...band guy we used to hang at Lakewood bars with...
Shooting Death of Edie Brickell & New Bohemians Member Appears to Fall Under Self-Defense | Fox News
I'm guessing this will end similar to the Botham Jean case from 6 years or so ago - one of Toby Shook's (another buddy) rare "losses"...
I'll allow this one on given you're a hayseed that's never lived in a city.
I've had "locks jiggled" on my home twice, and truck stolen off my driveway once...
in all three cases perpetrators were speaking Spanish when they did it.
Anecdotal, but that guy has no idea what they're saying as they're attempting to gain entry unannounced to his home, and that's certainly going to add suspicion to his train of thought.
This happened in Whitestown, btw. Not exactly a diverse, bustling urban metropolis. In fact, it’s probably full of hayseeds…like this guy.
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So, shoot an unarmed maid standing on the porch at 6:50 am (not the middle of the night, btw), without warning or announcement of intention, and some of you will bend over backward to defend this coward.
Shoot a rioter, leading a mob trying to break in through a window of a government building, after she has been warned several times, and the shooter is a murderer.
What a world.
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According to mattiedoesdallas, you must be a hayseed like me.@mattndallas I had a neighbor in my condo at west Palm. Guy was a lunatic. He bought up six garage spots in the community for his exotic cars and would spend Saturdays lining them all up to wash them. His gf was a stripper. One morning she walked out to the parking lot and let all of her gerbals go. She’d tan at the condo pool in a thong which was entertaining. And he had this crazy portable bar he’d set up. That was entertaining too. Anyway about once every month or so he’d get all fckd up and think my condo was his. About 4 am the door handle would start with his keys fumbling. It scares the fuck out of you. But you don’t just shoot through the door. You yell who is it????!!!
it’s a. Oh uh. Missed my door. Uh. It’s mike.
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That said, if she was... banging/knocking on it saying hello or asking for help...
She likely doesn't get shot.
That's the sad part, she thought she was entering an unoccupied / vacant model apartment that needed to be cleaned for a showing, apparently. That's why she went straight to the keys. You'd think that if she heard anything or even saw a light come on she'd say "wait a minute... is this the right place?"
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Geesh... In the 70s I remember selling band candy door-to-door at houses I didn't know, in neighborhoods I didn't know. Some bought candy, some didn't. Nobody was mad I showed up, nobody shot.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Geesh... In the 70s I remember selling band candy door-to-door at houses I didn't know, in neighborhoods I didn't know. Some bought candy, some didn't. Nobody was mad I showed up, nobody shot.
You must not have been making a commotion -- i.e. speaking Spanish.
Nobody was mad I showed up
WRONG, just like here.
If men were any more stupid, we would have breed for the extinction of women. Proof yet again that WE are the best thing they have going for them.
Uh, I’ve lived in downtown Indy for over 10 years, and worked on the near east side for over 35 years.So, speaking Spanish is a mitigating factor? Maybe he should have called ICE.My only "upfront bias" in this case is that this guy shouldn't be allowed to shoot a woman standing on his porch in broad daylight without announcing himself or giving warning of his intentions.Defense attorney's main task will be weeding snakes like hurryinghoosiers out of the jury box. I believe a guy like Bulk would admit his upfront bias in response to questions, but dishonest people like HH will try to lie to get on the jury to achieve "justice."@bradstevens defense attorney’s first task is to get rid of that middle part
I don't know what to make of the case. The linked story is actually pretty in depth for this stage of a case. I don't know how much changes. Based on it, I personally would have a tough time thinking the guy acted objectively reasonably, but would also have a tough time finding he didn't subjectively fear someone was breaking into his home. A tragedy all around.
I know he probably won't be found guilty, but I hope his guilt is crushing, and he is never allowed, even by his friends, family, and neighbors, to be comfortable with the consequences of his actions.
1. It wasn't in broad daylight, it was around 6:45am...completely dark.
2. She wasn't just "standing on his porch". She had been messing with his front lock, speaking Spanish, for a min or so.
So yes...clearly upfront bias.
That said, WAY to trigger quick. Reminds me a bit of this Dallas case years ago, accept this lady wasn't pounding on the door, or drunk, like Carter Albrecht...band guy we used to hang at Lakewood bars with...
Shooting Death of Edie Brickell & New Bohemians Member Appears to Fall Under Self-Defense | Fox News
I'm guessing this will end similar to the Botham Jean case from 6 years or so ago - one of Toby Shook's (another buddy) rare "losses"...
I'll allow this one on given you're a hayseed that's never lived in a city.
I've had "locks jiggled" on my home twice, and truck stolen off my driveway once...
in all three cases perpetrators were speaking Spanish when they did it.
Anecdotal, but that guy has no idea what they're saying as they're attempting to gain entry unannounced to his home, and that's certainly going to add suspicion to his train of thought.
This happened in Whitestown, btw. Not exactly a diverse, bustling urban metropolis. In fact, it’s probably full of hayseeds…like this guy.
When was the last time you set foot in Whitestown?
Uh, I’ve lived in downtown Indy for over 10 years, and worked on the near east side for over 35 years.So, speaking Spanish is a mitigating factor? Maybe he should have called ICE.My only "upfront bias" in this case is that this guy shouldn't be allowed to shoot a woman standing on his porch in broad daylight without announcing himself or giving warning of his intentions.Defense attorney's main task will be weeding snakes like hurryinghoosiers out of the jury box. I believe a guy like Bulk would admit his upfront bias in response to questions, but dishonest people like HH will try to lie to get on the jury to achieve "justice."@bradstevens defense attorney’s first task is to get rid of that middle part
I don't know what to make of the case. The linked story is actually pretty in depth for this stage of a case. I don't know how much changes. Based on it, I personally would have a tough time thinking the guy acted objectively reasonably, but would also have a tough time finding he didn't subjectively fear someone was breaking into his home. A tragedy all around.
I know he probably won't be found guilty, but I hope his guilt is crushing, and he is never allowed, even by his friends, family, and neighbors, to be comfortable with the consequences of his actions.
1. It wasn't in broad daylight, it was around 6:45am...completely dark.
2. She wasn't just "standing on his porch". She had been messing with his front lock, speaking Spanish, for a min or so.
So yes...clearly upfront bias.
That said, WAY to trigger quick. Reminds me a bit of this Dallas case years ago, accept this lady wasn't pounding on the door, or drunk, like Carter Albrecht...band guy we used to hang at Lakewood bars with...
Shooting Death of Edie Brickell & New Bohemians Member Appears to Fall Under Self-Defense | Fox News
I'm guessing this will end similar to the Botham Jean case from 6 years or so ago - one of Toby Shook's (another buddy) rare "losses"...
I'll allow this one on given you're a hayseed that's never lived in a city.
I've had "locks jiggled" on my home twice, and truck stolen off my driveway once...
in all three cases perpetrators were speaking Spanish when they did it.
Anecdotal, but that guy has no idea what they're saying as they're attempting to gain entry unannounced to his home, and that's certainly going to add suspicion to his train of thought.
This happened in Whitestown, btw. Not exactly a diverse, bustling urban metropolis. In fact, it’s probably full of hayseeds…like this guy.
When was the last time you set foot in Whitestown?
I have been to Moontown Brewery a few times. I really like their smash burgers, and the setting in the old gym is wonderful.
Driving through the rest of the town, I think I blinked and missed it.
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This happened in Whitestown, btw. Not exactly a diverse, bustling urban metropolis. In fact, it’s probably full of hayseeds…like this guy.
You'd be surprised. Whitestown is the fastest growing town in Indiana, from 2800 in 2010 to 15k in 2025. Burglaries, break ins and armed robberies have come to town in recent years.
https://whitestown.in.gov/news/suspects-identified-in-multi-agency-burglary-theft-incident/
A good friend will bail you out of jail, but your best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying "that was f***ing awesome"