Do you really sit around and imagine all the bad stuff that might happen? You need to read a book or something.
Suicide is the second leading cause of death ( behind accidents) for this demographic. The kid likely had a predisposition that his family didn’t see or ignored.
What are you talking about? No, I don't sit around imagining all the bad stuff that might happen. What a strange question.
I've not made any assumptions about this kid's mental health. That said, I find it hard to believe that what he and his family were dealing with wasn't a contributing factor to his decision to kill himself.
How many Haitians are in the same situation? How many suicides?
I don't know the answer to that specifically. I do know that there is real concern over the undue stress that community is under. More than a few friends are in leadership roles in Springfield City Schools and on the school board.
Are you suggesting that there wouldn't be mental health concerns when you threaten an entire community with updending their lives by deporting them back to a place that might not be safe for them?
Are you suggesting that there wouldn't be mental health concerns when you threaten an entire community with updending their lives by deporting them back to a place that might not be safe for them?
I don’t know. Is additional worry and stress a mental health issue?
I spent <10 seconds on the internet and found several paths to legal status for Haitians who were allowed to remain under TPS.
I don’t know. Is additional worry and stress a mental health issue?
I spent <10 seconds on the internet and found several paths to legal status for Haitians who were allowed to remain under TPS.
I'm not in Springfield right now. I don't live there, but grew up there and a lot of family and friends are deeply impacted and involved in this issue. Additionally, local and state leadership aren't neutral on this. They've all spoken out in opposition to the federal government's stance and actions.
That said, I'll pass on that your internet sleuthing has cracked the case. This could be real key-to-the-city stuff here. Jonathan Winters, Lillian Gish, Randy Ayers, John Legend and CO Hoosier. All Springfield legends and heroes.
If it takes you less than 10 seconds to find that information, maybe you should pass that on to folks in Cincinnati and Columbus who are making the trip(s) to Springfield to meet with Haitian immigrants to fit them with ankle bracelets. You could save them time and money on gas, drive time and presumably ankle bracelets.
And communities that are tired of TPS? We’re good to end it for those one’s? Is this a carve out just for Springfield? Or for all Haitians? De facto citizenship for all TPS recipients from all countries?
Maybe we let the communities decide maybe? Maybe each community can decide how it feels about each federal law, not just TPS.
You’re not being an adult about this. You haven’t come close to contemplating or outlining how this might work at scale.
You’ve argued to ignore a federal directive because of a sob story in one community. It’s all plays to emotion and Trump is a bad guy. Like pretty much everything you post.
I haven’t argued to ignore a federal directive; I’ve said this administration should have never enacted it in the first place.
And you haven’t acknowledged the likely negative economic impacts of communities like Springfield losing their Haitian populations. You can argue all you want about whether Haitians should or shouldn’t have been offered temporary asylum or if they were allowed to stay too long. The larger point is they’re here and removing them en masse will hurt the communities they’re in. I guess f*@k them?
You keep bringing up emotion, which I think is the wrong word to use. Compassion is probably the more accurate word. I’m unapologetic about wanting to live in a more compassionate society. I guess it’s the 17 years of Catholic schools and upbringing in me.
Do I feel bad that the kid committed suicide? Yes. Do I think all Haitans should be wearing ankle monitors? No, just reserve those for criminals (misdemeanors or higher).
TPS was overused and unregulated and enabled people to overstay their time ahead of those who are seeking legal immigration. The communities shouldn't have a say because immigration is Federal law. There are arguments both ways about the economic impacts. There are benefits for those working (sounds like many are), but they are also weighed down by increased school costs and higher property taxes paid by citizens. I don't think it is as cut-and-dried as you are making it seem.
That's on top of this statement from the economic development director:
When asked about the role Haitians have played in shaping the local workforce, McDorman seemed to indicate their impact was minimal. Of the more than 1,400 “bigger businesses” in the area, he claims only six have sizable immigrant populations in their workforce. He also denied having a strategy to attract and place Haitian workers. It was simply a case of word of mouth.
I’ll concede one point. The government’s TPS approach during the Biden years contributed to a misunderstanding about TPS. TPS isn’t permanent and should not be seen as a basis to begin a new life. If the government led people to believe that, that’s on us.
On the other hand, all the fine people in Springfield you mentioned who are upset with this should have helped the Haitians achieve legal permanent status from the moment they arrived.
Additionally, local and state leadership aren't neutral on this. They've all spoken out in opposition to the federal government's stance and actions.
Why does that matter? Federal laws are to be enforced above state and local. We've heard for years from Democrats that they want a stronger Federal Government. Well, here we are... just because state and local leaders don't like policies doesn't mean they should ignore or refuse them. Vote for people who can change and solve these complex issues (I say that TIC because we all know nobody worthwhile is seeking political office).
There are benefits for those working (sounds like many are), but they are also weighed down by increased school costs and higher property taxes paid by citizens.
This is - or has been - true. In the first year the Haitians moved to Springfield, there were a lot of growing pains. The schools weren't equipped to handle the extra kids and some schools didn't have anyone who spoke Haitian creole/french and even some of the translators employed by the school district to float between schools were at a loss. Between social media and hearing directly from friends and family, I've seen and heard this all play out. There was A LOT of frustration in that first year or so. Some Haitian students would show up in school and sit in the back of class, not speaking and not being spoken to. Eventually the investment in growing their educational capabilities came and things got ironed out.
And while the city specifically didn't request or recruit Haitians to town, the quote from the economic development director is only partially true. I'd have to get more info on this, but there were a handful of businesses that had heard of the Haitian TPS status and did actively recruit Haitians to Springfield. From there word of mouth definitely did spread.
There were a lot of other growing pains beside the unexpected burden the school system was placed under. Everyone would tell me that Haitians can't really drive or that they don't know what a one-way street or speed limits are. Then there was a tragic accident a few years ago where a Haitian immigrant hit a school bus on the first day of school, flipped the bus, killing a grade school kid. To their credit, that kid's parents came out and asked the community not to use this accident against the entire Haitian community, but if TPS status was up for debate at the time, you probably would have had an overwhelming majority of the city agreeing that they needed to leave.
Over the years as they became a part of the community, a lot of sentiment and feeling around the Haitians softened. They opened restaurants. People saw that many of them were reliable hard workers. People were rooting for Haitian kids on middle school and high school teams, alongside their kids. It wasn't a fast process - or even an easy one at times - but they really became ingratiated into the community.
Are there still people who want the Haitians deported? Yep. Before it became a national story, a woman I went to high school with was one of the most vocal people speaking out against the Haitian community. I have no idea what she believes now, but mutual friends said she stopped showing up at city council meetings when the national spotlight was turned on Springfield.
And by the whole 'eating the cats and dogs' things was just BS. What's worse is JD Vance KNEW it was BS. Some old woman couldn't find her cat and called the police claiming that some Haitian neighbors probably took her cat and ate it. Turns out the cat got stuck in her attic and she found it later.
His mother was a dip, father a shit. No details on how they did it but now we have Trump.
Why does that matter? Federal laws are to be enforced above state and local. We've heard for years from Democrats that they want a stronger Federal Government. Well, here we are... just because state and local leaders don't like policies doesn't mean they should ignore or refuse them. Vote for people who can change and solve these complex issues (I say that TIC because we all know nobody worthwhile is seeking political office).
I get what you're saying, but there are a lot of people who think Springfield will be f*&ked when the Haitians are removed from the community. Rough estimates are that there were anywhere between 12,000 - 15,000 Haitians that moved into town in a few years time. That was a shot in the arm for a town of roughly 60,000 people that has been hemorrhaging population since the 1980s when IH/Navistar started moving jobs overseas.
Local and state government officials aren't ignoring or refusing federal law. ICE is on the ground there and no government officials are trying to roadblock them. For the most part there isn't much of a fight. Most people in town feel it's a damned shame.
STOP USING THE QUOTE FUNCTION.
in your last sentence, can you say most or is it some?Why does that matter? Federal laws are to be enforced above state and local. We've heard for years from Democrats that they want a stronger Federal Government. Well, here we are... just because state and local leaders don't like policies doesn't mean they should ignore or refuse them. Vote for people who can change and solve these complex issues (I say that TIC because we all know nobody worthwhile is seeking political office).
I get what you're saying, but there are a lot of people who think Springfield will be f*&ked when the Haitians are removed from the community. Rough estimates are that there were anywhere between 12,000 - 15,000 Haitians that moved into town in a few years time. That was a shot in the arm for a town of roughly 60,000 people that has been hemorrhaging population since the 1980s when IH/Navistar started moving jobs overseas.
Local and state government officials aren't ignoring or refusing federal law. ICE is on the ground there and no government officials are trying to roadblock them. For the most part there isn't much of a fight. Most people in town feel it's a damned shame.
This is the only thing I found in a quick search:
https://www.bigdatapoll.com/blog/majority-in-springfield-ohio-want-ex-tps-haitians-deported/
These numbers, if true, shouldn't surprise us since Trump won the county with 64% of the vote.
in your last sentence, can you say most or is it some?Why does that matter? Federal laws are to be enforced above state and local. We've heard for years from Democrats that they want a stronger Federal Government. Well, here we are... just because state and local leaders don't like policies doesn't mean they should ignore or refuse them. Vote for people who can change and solve these complex issues (I say that TIC because we all know nobody worthwhile is seeking political office).
I get what you're saying, but there are a lot of people who think Springfield will be f*&ked when the Haitians are removed from the community. Rough estimates are that there were anywhere between 12,000 - 15,000 Haitians that moved into town in a few years time. That was a shot in the arm for a town of roughly 60,000 people that has been hemorrhaging population since the 1980s when IH/Navistar started moving jobs overseas.
Local and state government officials aren't ignoring or refusing federal law. ICE is on the ground there and no government officials are trying to roadblock them. For the most part there isn't much of a fight. Most people in town feel it's a damned shame.
This is the only thing I found in a quick search:
https://www.bigdatapoll.com/blog/majority-in-springfield-ohio-want-ex-tps-haitians-deported/
These numbers, if true, shouldn't surprise us since Trump won the county with 64% of the vote.
Cough....cough........COUGH @aloha-hoosier. A simple, "I'm an idiot and was wayyyyy wrong. Oh...and snarlcakes is 10x more intelligent than me. And little old ladies at nursing homes could beat me up" should be sufficient as an apologize. Thanks ahead of time for your humbleness.