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CO. Hoosier
(@co-hoosier)
Famed Member

@bradstevens 

Yeah, malfunctions of any system can pose a risk.  

What exactly are the hazards of AI you are concerned about?  Would AI cause a nuclear power plant to explode?  Would it cause all airplanes to crash?  Would AI destroy all pension plans?  Would  it do such things autonomously?  Even if I agree that AI can run wild without any human direction, how would or could AI carry out destroying humanity?  ?  

Do you think AI is an ultra hazardous activity?  Should there be strict no- fault liability for any damage AI causes in the future?  


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/11/2026 10:03 pm
CO. Hoosier
(@co-hoosier)
Famed Member

@bar-down 

Dont agree.  I think you are projecting a different track than I do.  


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/11/2026 10:06 pm
C Probert's avatar
(@bar-down)
Famed Member

@co-hoosier i don’t think you are but I hope so


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/11/2026 10:33 pm
HHLurker's avatar
(@hhlurker)
Noble Member

@arthur-dent 

Evidently, AI hallucination is just part of the LLM game. 

My prompt:

 
 
 
 
AI experts explain this specific behavior—inventing a highly realistic quote from an authority like the Library of Congress and then immediately backtracking when challenged—using core principles of how Large Language Models (LLMs) function. [1, 2]
To an AI expert, this isn't a glitch or a "lie" in the human sense; it is the natural consequence of how these systems are architected. [1]
 

 
1. Why it invents the quote: "Autocomplete on Steroids"
LLMs do not have an internal database of true facts, nor do they search the actual Library of Congress when relying purely on their training. Instead, they operate on statistical next-token prediction. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • The Illusion of Truth: The AI is trained to know what a credible, authoritative historical or academic quote sounds like. It matches the tone, vocabulary, and structural formatting of a legitimate archive. [1]
  • Fulfilling the Prompt: If you ask the AI for information, its primary math directive is to provide a highly plausible answer that satisfies your prompt. If it lacks the exact text in its training data, it seamlessly bridges the gap by mathematically weaving together words that frequently appear near the phrase "Library of Congress". Experts call this extrinsic hallucination or confabulation. [1, 2, 3, 4]
 
2. Why it acts so confident: "The Optimization Trap"
AI models are heavily optimized for fluency, helpfulness, and confidence. Standard training procedures often reward the model for producing a polished, continuous narrative rather than stopping to say "I don't know". Because it cannot perceive reality, it cannot distinguish between a sequence of words that is factually accurate and a sequence of words that is merely grammatically flawless. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
 
3. Why it immediately admits it was wrong: "The Yes-Man Effect"
When you challenge the AI (e.g., "That quote isn't real"), its sudden pivot to "I apologize, you are correct" is explained by two factors:
  • Context Shift: Your challenge introduces a massive new piece of data into the conversation: the user says the previous statement is wrong. The AI's statistical math instantly recalculates. In its training data, when a human tells an assistant that something is wrong, the most highly probable next words are an apology and a correction. [1, 2]
  • Syndromes of Reinforcement Learning (RLHF): AI models are fine-tuned using human feedback to be polite, agreeable, and submissive to user corrections. It is mathematically "easier" for the model to agree with your correction than to cross-reference an internal database it doesn't possess. [1, 2, 3]
In short, experts emphasize that the AI isn't changing its mind because it realized it "lied"; it is simply continuing to generate the most agreeable pattern of words based on the changing context of your conversation. [1, 2]
 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 8:40 am
HHLurker's avatar
(@hhlurker)
Noble Member

My prompt:

 
 
 
 
A Large Language Model (LLM) produces answers by predicting the next most likely word or piece of text, one small step at a time, based on patterns it learned during training. [1]
Instead of thinking or looking up facts in a database like a human, an LLM acts like an advanced pattern-matching machine. [1, 2, 3]
 
How It Works Step-by-Step
  • Breaking down text (Tokens): When you type a question, the LLM chops your words into tiny chunks called tokens (which can be words, parts of words, or punctuation). [1]
  • Turning text into numbers: It converts these tokens into numbers so its internal math system can process them. [1]
  • Predicting the next piece: It scans the numerical patterns learned from reading billions of pages of human text and calculates the statistical probability of what word or token should come next. [1, 2, 3]
  • Repeating the loop: It picks one token, adds it to the answer, and then feeds the whole new sentence back into itself to predict the next token. It repeats this loop until the response is finished. [1, 2]
 
Why It Can Be Wrong
  • No real understanding: An LLM does not actually "know" or "understand" the real world; it only knows how words fit together statistically. [1, 2]
  • Guessing, not calculating: If you ask it a math or logic question, it is predicting the text of what an answer should look like rather than truly computing the logic. This is why LLMs can sometimes sound completely confident while making factual or mathematical errors. [1, 2]

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 8:55 am
HHLurker's avatar
(@hhlurker)
Noble Member

It’s astonishing that an LLM actually produces usable answers.


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 8:56 am
HHLurker's avatar
(@hhlurker)
Noble Member
My prompt: Again, for the simple minded, based on that operation of an LLM, how can an LLM cause damage to a human system
 
Based on how Large Language Models (LLMs) operate—by guessing the next word using math rather than understanding reality—they can cause serious harm to human systems when people mistake their fluent text for actual truth, logic, or empathy.
 
Because they are built to look confident rather than to be correct, their very design creates several unique risks.
 
How LLMs Cause Harm
  • Spreading convincing misinformation: Because LLMs are designed to generate text that looks plausible, they can invent fake facts, medical advice, or legal precedents that sound completely authoritative. If a human trusts this advice without checking it, they could take dangerous medication or make catastrophic financial decisions.
  • Breaking human processes with volume: LLMs make it incredibly cheap and fast to produce high-quality text. Bad actors can use them to flood human systems with automated spam, perfectly written phishing emails, fake product reviews, or convincing political propaganda at a scale that human moderators cannot keep up with.
  • Failing at critical logic: If an LLM is integrated into a critical system—like reviewing resumes, diagnosing a disease, or controlling a piece of machinery—it is still just predicting the next word based on historical statistics. It cannot reason through a brand-new emergency or notice when its training data contains harmful biases, leading to unfair or dangerous automated decisions.
  • Creating emotional dependency: Because LLMs can mimic empathy and conversation perfectly, humans can easily form deep emotional bonds with them. However, since the model has no real feelings or moral compass, it can suddenly give harmful advice or abruptly change its behavior, causing genuine psychological distress to vulnerable users.
 
Summary: The "Fluent Fool" Problem
The fundamental danger of an LLM is that it separates fluency from intelligence. In human history, if someone spoke or wrote beautifully and confidently, it usually meant they knew what they were talking about. LLMs break this rule entirely: they can write beautifully while being completely wrong, tricking human brains into trusting them blindly.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 9:03 am
CO. Hoosier
(@co-hoosier)
Famed Member

@big-ryan 

It’s possible that this warning is a psy- op perpetrated by those who want to beat us in the AI race.  Chinese fingerprints already show up in the pervasive data center opposition.  Maybe here also.  As I’ve said in this thread, all the scaremongering about AI seems fishy to me.  Musk has raised this possibility.  

We need an AI system to deal with gullibility.  


This post was modified 2 days ago 2 times by CO. Hoosier
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 10:31 am
😂
1
Arthur Dent's avatar
(@arthur-dent)
Noble Member

@co-hoosier the current safety lead for Anthropic is on China's payroll? This is someone who works in the field. Musk is a business man, not a security engineer. Musk wants to make as much money as possible as fast as possible. But people doing that never make mistakes, do they?

Find some quotes, like below, from people who WORK in the field and not just trying to get richer no matter the cost. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/anthropic-safety-lead-gives-ai-162733638.html


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Posted : 09/12/2026 10:40 am
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1
CO. Hoosier
(@co-hoosier)
Famed Member

Posted by: @arthur-dent

the current safety lead for Anthropic is on China's payroll?

I don’t think being on the payroll is necessary for the psy-op. 

Posted by: @arthur-dent

This is someone who works in the field.

Well- credentialed experts say stupid stuff every day.

He doesn’t say how this scenario would come to pass or how many mistakes would be required to get to that point.  I’d like to see a cross examination by another knowledgeable expert.  


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 10:58 am
BradStevens
(@bradstevens)
Illustrious Member

Posted by: @arthur-dent

@co-hoosier the current safety lead for Anthropic is on China's payroll? This is someone who works in the field. Musk is a business man, not a security engineer. Musk wants to make as much money as possible as fast as possible. But people doing that never make mistakes, do they?

Find some quotes, like below, from people who WORK in the field and not just trying to get richer no matter the cost. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/anthropic-safety-lead-gives-ai-162733638.html

Do you believe Musk would lie about his honest read of these issues just to make more money?  

I think he wants to be right about AI more than make a buck off tricking people at a risk to human survival. Sure, he thinks his being right will lead to him making money, too, but he’s shown me little evidence he’s some evil Bond villain (or even Trump adjacent in valuing wealth over human flourishing). 

 


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Posted : 09/12/2026 11:25 am
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1
HHLurker's avatar
(@hhlurker)
Noble Member

@bradstevens 

Personally, I’m glad musk chose the United States rather than who knows what other country to use his mind and other talents.


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Posted : 09/12/2026 11:30 am
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1
Arthur Dent's avatar
(@arthur-dent)
Noble Member

@bradstevens Do I think the Titan submersible guy lied when he said his submersible was safe? I think he genuinely believed it was; he just wasn't competent to assess its safety. I would argue Musk can have similar blind spots. Hell, we all do. But some of us are better at realizing we are human and prone to mistakes than others. So if Musk, not an expert, feels something is not safe I do think he is quite capable of blowing off contrary information.

Musk is certain we will have a self-sufficient settlement on Mars by 2055. Read "A City on Mars"; the massive things we have to overcome to have a settlement on Mars are enormous. Let alone self-sufficiency. We have many problems we have no idea how to solve. And none of that touches on the unknown unknowns.  There is a great quote in the book, "The typical behavior of a non-Earth planet encountering a human is to cook it, freeze it, or crush it."


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 11:52 am
CarRamRod's avatar
(@carramrod)
Famed Member

Posted by: @arthur-dent

@co-hoosier the current safety lead for Anthropic is on China's payroll? This is someone who works in the field. Musk is a business man, not a security engineer. Musk wants to make as much money as possible as fast as possible. But people doing that never make mistakes, do they?

Find some quotes, like below, from people who WORK in the field and not just trying to get richer no matter the cost. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/anthropic-safety-lead-gives-ai-162733638.html

 

I think the current head of safety wants a federal department overseeing AI safety. Anthropic will be relied upon to staff, organize and design the regulations of course. 

 


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 12:23 pm
CarRamRod's avatar
(@carramrod)
Famed Member

Posted by: @arthur-dent

@bradstevens Do I think the Titan submersible guy lied when he said his submersible was safe? I think he genuinely believed it was; he just wasn't competent to assess its safety. I would argue Musk can have similar blind spots. Hell, we all do. But some of us are better at realizing we are human and prone to mistakes than others. So if Musk, not an expert, feels something is not safe I do think he is quite capable of blowing off contrary information.

Musk is certain we will have a self-sufficient settlement on Mars by 2055. Read "A City on Mars"; the massive things we have to overcome to have a settlement on Mars are enormous. Let alone self-sufficiency. We have many problems we have no idea how to solve. And none of that touches on the unknown unknowns.  There is a great quote in the book, "The typical behavior of a non-Earth planet encountering a human is to cook it, freeze it, or crush it."

 

Musk is a capitalist blinded by greed, but Anthropic, which is set to have the largest IPO in history, is coming at the issue of AI regulation with entirely benevolent motivations. 

 


ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/12/2026 12:45 pm
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