You can reject it all you want, but it's obviously true. I mean, kudos to you for crafting your argument. You're good at it and would excel in law school. I mean that.You think it's rare for a group of wealthy girls in an institution that favors (anti-Christian) attributes like wealth and appearances in judging the girls as worthy to also act catty, judgmental, and bitchy?I despise the whole system and almost everything it stands for.
And my daughter is dead set on doing it.
A lot of hit piece media against sororities these days. Most of it is over dramatic and picks up on rare instances that reflect poorly on the system.
They’re just college girls. No better or worse than Independents. Actually they’re better. Greek GPA is always higher than their independent peers. And they’re more attractive, with better social skills.
Stop playing naive. We know you know that's bullshit.
I reject the idea that they’re overly elitist. Especially not at IU. Like I said, college is expensive, not just tuition but room and board as well. The exorbitant sorority dues look a lot less brutal when you the parent are paying for an off campus apartment and food for your kid anyway.
Sorority rush is definitely anxiety inducing from what I can gather and I think that’s where a lot of the criticism stems from. Anytime you are trying to impress dozens of people in a short amount of time anxiety and nervousness will be the norm. So you better learn to take pride in your appearance and be gregarious. Because you’ll have to do it again at new jobs, when you move to new neighborhoods, etc.
And many girls will be faced with rejection for reasons that might seem arbitrary or trivial. I think that’s an important lesson to learn as well. Have you ever been rejected for reasons that didn’t make sense to you? I bet you have.
Once you’re in, from what I gather it’s just typical college life. Maybe with a better social life and a wider support network.
And people dress up and are nice to each other at Mass as well. Just like sorority rush. Even parishes have hierarchies.
But everything you write is nothing more than rationalizations. As for your comp to Mass (the worst of your arguments, I would put it in the middle, not last) give me a break--churches don't select who is a member of their parish based on superficialities, and as for dressing up, have you been to Mass lately?
I know toms of girls who got into top sororities
Thanks for making my point for me.
Cool story about IU and all, but my daughter is looking at a ton of schools. So unless you think your anecdotal experience applies across all schools (which would make you a fool), it's irrelevant.
As for "making a whole group of lifelong friends," LOL. You can't do that without joining an elitist organization? Like the author of the article said, sororities and frats are like country clubs--which I consider, by definition and their histories, bastions of elitism, racial and ethnic segregation, and superficiality.
I know toms of girls who got into top sororities
Thanks for making my point for me.
Cool story about IU and all, but my daughter is looking at a ton of schools. So unless you think your anecdotal experience applies across all schools (which would make you a fool), it's irrelevant.
As for "making a whole group of lifelong friends," LOL. You can't do that without joining an elitist organization? Like the author of the article said, sororities and frats are like country clubs--which I consider, by definition and their histories, bastions of elitism, racial and ethnic segregation, and superficiality.
I think you have a massive misperception issue around Sororities and Country Clubs. I worked grunt jobs at both.
A decade as a caddy and a dishwasher through college in a sorority.
Rather than being viewed as “the help” as you would expect, some guys met their future wives while working in the sorority kitchen. As for caddying, wealthy WASP’s are hands down, by far, the best people to serve if you’re going to work in the service industry.
If the old adage holds true that you should judge people by how they treat those in the service industry, then country club members and Greek life members are some of the better people in society.
Me too. My daughter was looking forward to it (my wife was in a sorority) and went through rush. She got offers, but not from the ones she wanted. Straight A student and, from my perspective, a very sweet girl. Probably too sweet.I despise the whole system and almost everything it stands for.
And my daughter is dead set on doing it.
But she had made friends in the dorm and kept many of them through school and has never expressed any regret. I'm proud of her for not getting sucked into that lifestyle. Frankly, she's just not catty enough to be in a sorority. I know that's a blanket statement, but I know her, and it's just not her.
Glad I didn't have to deal with it.
Where does your daughter want to go to school?
DANC
@carramrod I was a houseboy at a sorority and I found the girls to be, more or less, a microcosm of the college girl population. Not all blond and beautiful, but most were just nice, normal girls. Of course, this was in the 70s, when I think the popularity of Greek life wasn't as strong.
I did used to like going to the TV room on a Saturday night and asking who wanted to go to the bars - had some fun times, but I never got romantically involved with any of the girls. That would have caused a lot of issues.
DANC
Current list includes Indiana, Illinois, Georgia, Clemson, Tennessee, Emory, Texas. I'm pushing for Notre Dame and a couple of smaller schools to be added to the list. She said Vandy, too, but I know she has no interest and only said that for me.Me too. My daughter was looking forward to it (my wife was in a sorority) and went through rush. She got offers, but not from the ones she wanted. Straight A student and, from my perspective, a very sweet girl. Probably too sweet.I despise the whole system and almost everything it stands for.
And my daughter is dead set on doing it.
But she had made friends in the dorm and kept many of them through school and has never expressed any regret. I'm proud of her for not getting sucked into that lifestyle. Frankly, she's just not catty enough to be in a sorority. I know that's a blanket statement, but I know her, and it's just not her.
Glad I didn't have to deal with it.
Where does your daughter want to go to school?
I believe you had a good experience at both. But I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think toxic femininity and masculinity are rampant in the Greek system at any large university. It's also obviously true that they are bastions of racial and ethnic segregation.I know toms of girls who got into top sororities
Thanks for making my point for me.
Cool story about IU and all, but my daughter is looking at a ton of schools. So unless you think your anecdotal experience applies across all schools (which would make you a fool), it's irrelevant.
As for "making a whole group of lifelong friends," LOL. You can't do that without joining an elitist organization? Like the author of the article said, sororities and frats are like country clubs--which I consider, by definition and their histories, bastions of elitism, racial and ethnic segregation, and superficiality.
I think you have a massive misperception issue around Sororities and Country Clubs. I worked grunt jobs at both.
A decade as a caddy and a dishwasher through college in a sorority.
Rather than being viewed as “the help” as you would expect, some guys met their future wives while working in the sorority kitchen. As for caddying, wealthy WASP’s are hands down, by far, the best people to serve if you’re going to work in the service industry.
If the old adage holds true that you should judge people by how they treat those in the service industry, then country club members and Greek life members are some of the better people in society.
By the way, being nice to the help doesn't mean you're not elitist about wealth and social standing--it just means you're not a raging asshole.
@old-crescent my daughter would own a sorority. Just crush the shit out of it. Is the school bit required?
@bradstevens what smaller ones? I got into law school at nd and my gf and I visited. I didn’t like anything about it. Including the people. This many years later doesn’t matter but. I cannot imagine choosing it over ga Clemson iu etc. Greenville area is a great place. Athens as I’m sure you know is quintessential
Dont care, just smaller. She goes to a small Catholic all-girls school and currently has 69 kids in her class. She likes to be liked by her teachers, and many do love her (her religion teacher started crying during her P/T conferences last year in talking about what an "angel" she was, which was sweet--and a little nutty). So I think she's do better at a smaller school, where you are actually taught by your professors (not a grad asst) and they get to know you.@bradstevens what smaller ones? I got into law school at nd and my gf and I visited. I didn’t like anything about it. Including the people. This many years later doesn’t matter but. I cannot imagine choosing it over ga Clemson iu etc. Greenville area is a great place. Athens as I’m sure you know is quintessential
Re smaller school, a small liberal-arts school like Depauw, only higher ranked/better school. Davidson in NC might be good given her current interest in that region.
@bradstevens who are you and what did you do with Brad? “Toxic” masculinity? “Bastions of segregation”?
This is mindless woke language. You wouldn’t speak this way in any other context. Greeks don’t discriminate on race unless it’s a Jewish or black house, all but a few country clubs have dropped the same.
When the sorority girls you work for become your social circle and the golfers you work for put you through college I think it’s safe to say their behavior was more than superficial niceties.
Yes they’re not a kindergarten classroom. There is freedom of association with country clubs and Greek life. They don’t have admit people they don’t like. What is this pretend world you live in where the highest value of everything is inclusivity? It’s ridiculous.
Toxic masculinity is a useful term to describe super-aggressive, mysoginostic behavior and unhealthy behaviors or mindset that are thought of as traditionally masculine. You can capture a paragraph’s worth of description in a two word phrase. Is it mis- and over-used by the woke? Yep.@bradstevens who are you and what did you do with Brad? “Toxic” masculinity? “Bastions of segregation”?
This is mindless woke language. You wouldn’t speak this way in any other context. Greeks don’t discriminate on race unless it’s a Jewish or black house, all but a few country clubs have dropped the same.
When the sorority girls you work for become your social circle and the golfers you work for put you through college I think it’s safe to say their behavior was more than superficial niceties.
Yes they’re not a kindergarten classroom. There is freedom of association with country clubs and Greek life. They don’t have admit people they don’t like. What is this pretend world you live in where the highest priority of everything is inclusivity? It’s ridiculous.
As for segregation, it’s been around and a problem for far longer than woke bullshit, and I’m not a fan, whether it be de facto or de jure.
Your blanket statement that Greeks don’t discriminate based on race or ethnicity is laughable as to white people at many large universities (hey there,SEC!) and contradicted by your exceptions for Jewish and black people.
I notice neither you nor your partner here, Zeke, has yet to address the “top” sororities. Let me guess, top as in collective GPA? Most money raised for charity? 🙄 Certainly not top as rated by some superficial factors. Couldn’t be that.
I notice neither you nor your partner here, Zeke, has yet to address the “top” sororities. Let me guess, top as in collective GPA? Most money raised for charity? 🙄 Certainly not top as rated by some superficial factors. Couldn’t be that.
Gotta be the bewbs.
Let me put it this way... I drive across 17th several times a day. The scenery there is outstanding. I occasionally also have to deliver to campus on east 10th next to the underpass. The scenery across 10th, in front of Wright, Teter, and Eigenmann is, shall we say, a lot more pedestrian.
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