What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
You can still get a cavity even if you regularly brush your teeth. And there are security measures to ensure voting is a safe and as secure as possible. I'm not saying that you can't tighten up things and make voting even more secure. There's always room for improvement.
It just seems odd that it's plain to see that the current administration seems to be putting their thumb on the scale so that voting benefits them and their party and everyone in said party seems OK with that.
What security measures are in place now?
@ohio-guy ordering a copy of your birth certificate means you misplaced the original. It happens, we’re human. I couldn’t tell you where exactly my original is at the moment.
That is of course my failing. And any associated fees that come with ordering a new one is a result of that failing.
Is this a high bar for being able to vote in federal elections? As others have pointed out, do we want people that can’t get their shit together enough to produce a birth certificate and/ or passport to even be voting in elections?
My sense is this really isn’t electorally damaging to Democrats if non-citizen voting is not widespread as we’ve been assured.
The average Campus leftist can produce a passport. Campus leftist loves telling you about their trip to Copenhagen and how the Euros have cracked the code on building a functional society.
MAGA Mark in Mississippi might be more likely to fall among the half of Americans that don’t even own a passport.
That's a thing both sides do. The Inflation Reduction Act had nothing to do with reducing inflation.Also kudos to the GOP on the name selection. They really are the best at naming a turd sandwich in such a way that if you disagree with it you seem "Un-American". Patriot Act, Citizens United, Save Act. Top notch gas lighting propaganda.
What security measures are in place now?
Your post wasn't directed to me but, in any event, I'll provide this responsive link.
United in Security: How Every State Protects Your Vote in 2026 • Bipartisan Policy Center
Trump's own officials said 2020 was the most secure election in US history.
You guys keep throwing statistics around as if you know with certainty how much there is. Two months ago, you would have probably suggested daycare fraud in Minnesota wasn’t significant. The point is, if ways to commit fraud are uncovered they should be removed before they are exploited to a greater degree.
THEY ARE CONSTANTLY LOOKING FOR WAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE COMMITTING VOTER FRAUD. THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NEW WAYS THAT FRAUD IS BEING COMMITTED EVERY YEAR. THE GOOD NEWS IS, WE ARE CATCHING IT.
Your example is not remotely comparable because nobody was every looking for fraud in Minnesota daycare before.
Do you think that election overseers are just fat, dumb, and happy and doing nothing to make sure that people who shouldn't be voting are somehow slipping votes through?
Voter rolls are reviewed. Voter registrations are verified. There are people whose job it is to figure out if votes are valid or not. They are not just sitting in their cushy government office playing Solitaire.
I can say it with certainty because claims of voter fraud are checked......constantly.
It's not like they check once a decade and come up with 10's of cases.
Don't you think that with all of these claims by Trump about fraud, with the 10's of millions of devoted followers that believe every word that comes out of his mouth, that someone would have been able to dig up some kind of verifiable proof about all of this rampant fraud that is occurring?
Of the THOUSANDS of accusations that the MAGA faithful have spouted for the last six years, how many have actually stood up in court? Three? Maybe a dozen? And of those victories, the "fraud" turns out to be a couple of votes total, not broad-spectrum cheating.
You guys keep throwing statistics around as if you know with certainty how much there is. Two months ago, you would have probably suggested daycare fraud in Minnesota wasn’t significant. The point is, if ways to commit fraud are uncovered they should be removed before they are exploited to a greater degree.
THEY ARE CONSTANTLY LOOKING FOR WAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE COMMITTING VOTER FRAUD. THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NEW WAYS THAT FRAUD IS BEING COMMITTED EVERY YEAR. THE GOOD NEWS IS, WE ARE CATCHING IT.
Your example is not remotely comparable because nobody was every looking for fraud in Minnesota daycare before.
Do you think that election overseers are just fat, dumb, and happy and doing nothing to make sure that people who shouldn't be voting are somehow slipping votes through?
Voter rolls are reviewed. Voter registrations are verified. There are people whose job it is to figure out if votes are valid or not. They are not just sitting in their cushy government office playing Solitaire.
I can say it with certainty because claims of voter fraud are checked......constantly.
It's not like they check once a decade and come up with 10's of cases.
Don't you think that with all of these claims by Trump about fraud, with the 10's of millions of devoted followers that believe every word that comes out of his mouth, that someone would have been able to dig up some kind of verifiable proof about all of this rampant fraud that is occurring?
Of the THOUSANDS of accusations that the MAGA faithful have spouted for the last six years, how many have actually stood up in court? Three? Maybe a dozen? And of those victories, the "fraud" turns out to be a couple of votes total, not broad-spectrum cheating.
You have no clue what’s not being caught, & neither do I. You have no clue how effective the people charged with catching are, & neither do I. I get it, you’re willing to risk non-citizens & foreign entities meddling in our elections in exchange for maximizing the impact of the Biden administration’s 4 year effort to remake the electorate, add congressional seats, etc. I am a firm believer in preventative measures being put in place & that anyone should be able to append an hour of their life showing the rest of us that they are an eligible voter, not waiting until it’s too late to discover there was enough cheating to impact a result.
The average Campus leftist can produce a passport. Campus leftist loves telling you about their trip to Copenhagen and how the Euros have cracked the code on building a functional society.
That is some grade A BS right there.
90% of the people who have a passport have one because they travel internationally for work or can afford international vacations. The latter may apply to your average student at Yale, but only about 5% for IU families and significantly less for any MAC school, etc.
what if it was stolen? What if it burned in a fire? What if your parents or someone else lost it?@ohio-guy ordering a copy of your birth certificate means you misplaced the original. It happens, we’re human. I couldn’t tell you where exactly my original is at the moment.
That is of course my failing. And any associated fees that come with ordering a new one is a result of that failing.
Is this a high bar for being able to vote in federal elections? As others have pointed out, do we want people that can’t get their shit together enough to produce a birth certificate and/ or passport to even be voting in elections?
My sense is this really isn’t electorally damaging to Democrats if non-citizen voting is not widespread as we’ve been assured.
The average Campus leftist can produce a passport. Campus leftist loves telling you about their trip to Copenhagen and how the Euros have cracked the code on building a functional society.
MAGA Mark in Mississippi might be more likely to fall among the half of Americans that don’t even own a passport.
Also it's still cost money to replace and the 24th amendment seems pretty clear on that.
The average Campus leftist can produce a passport. Campus leftist loves telling you about their trip to Copenhagen and how the Euros have cracked the code on building a functional society.
That is some grade A BS right there.
90% of the people who have a passport have one because they travel internationally for work or can afford international vacations. The latter may apply to your average student at Yale, but only about 5% for IU families and significantly less for any MAC school, etc.
25% of IUB students study abroad at some point. So I find it absolutely shocking that only 5% of them have passports.
Where did you get that figure from? Talk about BS.
I forwarded a theory, I don’t know if it’s correct or not. You made shit up whole cloth.
No. But trying to find someone to further an argument and creating a law that makes it a legal requirement to pay money before voting are wildly different.The Save Act as it stands is a poll tax. It won't pass the Senate because of this. Even with a nuclear option simple majority. Because most senators know that if it did the SC would quickly kill it.
What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
If you disenfranchise 1 million voters for the sake of eliminating 1 case of fraud, is that acceptable?
The current level of "fraud" is literally about that level, 1 case per million. While I take it with a grain of salt, I've seen estimates that the current SAVE act could lead to 1 to 5 million votes lost because of the extra hoops that people have to go through.
"The enemy of good is perfection"
Could we make a system that absolutely makes it nigh impossible to commit voter fraud? Maybe. But frankly, there will always be a way for someone to find a gap in the system. You will never eliminate 100% of fraud. But as-is, the levels are in the .0001 percentage level. Literally 10's of cases relative to 300 million. Levels that absolutely have no effect on outcomes. So do I find that to be an acceptable level? Honestly? Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
To put things in perspective, you had higher odds of dying when you got in your car this morning than voter fraud affecting an election outcome. Does that mean that we should lower the national speed limit to 25mph?
And in case you hadn't noticed, we do have screening methods in place that seem to be working in order to keep us at this .0001 percent level.
It's a non-existent problem that you are screaming is in need of a solution. All because Trump can't acknowledge that he lost the 2020 election.
Please learn what the word disenfranchised means. If people choose not to because they’re lazy or stupid, America wins.
You guys keep throwing statistics around as if you know with certainty how much there is. Two months ago, you would have probably suggested daycare fraud in Minnesota wasn’t significant. The point is, if ways to commit fraud are uncovered they should be removed before they are exploited to a greater degree. Again, will you give up your vote to offset the small number you claim? I’m unwilling to have my vote nullified by fraud.
NO ONE IS BEING DISENFRANCHISED.
Simple solution to this for Republicans. Make these voter IDs, or even better Passports, free and easy to get. If they did this, they may even win over some moderate Dems. Wonder why they won't consider that though? I wonder if there is some ulterior motive to the Save Act.
Also kudos to the GOP on the name selection. They really are the best at naming a turd sandwich in such a way that if you disagree with it you seem "Un-American". Patriot Act, Citizens United, Save Act. Top notch gas lighting propaganda.
I remember when Biden and John Lewis were trying to pass their garbage legislation to steal more elections and the Dems couldn't find one person to bring forward who was legal to vote and didn't have an ID or at minimum couldn't easily get one. Not one.
what if it was stolen? What if it burned in a fire? What if your parents or someone else lost it?@ohio-guy ordering a copy of your birth certificate means you misplaced the original. It happens, we’re human. I couldn’t tell you where exactly my original is at the moment.
That is of course my failing. And any associated fees that come with ordering a new one is a result of that failing.
Is this a high bar for being able to vote in federal elections? As others have pointed out, do we want people that can’t get their shit together enough to produce a birth certificate and/ or passport to even be voting in elections?
My sense is this really isn’t electorally damaging to Democrats if non-citizen voting is not widespread as we’ve been assured.
The average Campus leftist can produce a passport. Campus leftist loves telling you about their trip to Copenhagen and how the Euros have cracked the code on building a functional society.
MAGA Mark in Mississippi might be more likely to fall among the half of Americans that don’t even own a passport.
Also it's still cost money to replace and the 24th amendment seems pretty clear on that.
What if it was stolen by aliens? What if a ghost took it?
In this thing called life, sometimes inconvenient things will happen to you that are beyond your control. And being adult means you take necessary steps to rectify those things.
I don't know about college students but roughly 50% of people in the the US do not have a passport. That's a lot lower than I thought actually.
The average Campus leftist can produce a passport. Campus leftist loves telling you about their trip to Copenhagen and how the Euros have cracked the code on building a functional society.
That is some grade A BS right there.
90% of the people who have a passport have one because they travel internationally for work or can afford international vacations. The latter may apply to your average student at Yale, but only about 5% for IU families and significantly less for any MAC school, etc.
25% of IUB students study abroad at some point. So I find it absolutely shocking that only 5% of them have passports.
Where did you get that figure from? Talk about BS.
I forwarded a theory, I don’t know if it’s correct or not. You made shit up whole cloth.
25% of IUB students study abroad at some point. So I find it absolutely shocking that only 5% of them have passports.
Where did you get that figure from? Talk about BS.
I forwarded a theory, I don’t know if it’s correct or not. You made shit up whole cloth.
Link?
My quick search:
+4
. While a specific, overarching university-wide percentage for all undergraduates isn't uniformly cited, it is a top Big Ten institution for overseas study, with~2,500 students participating annually.
No. Think. Do math.
Undergrad is 4+ years. 2500 in a given year means there is a different 2500 the next year. 2500 is about 25% of a given undergrad class if not more.
You aren’t correct about this.
@squeakyclean which doesn’t mean they don’t have a passport or birth certificate.
Where is your 5% figure from? Why did you say it as specific to IUB?