I don’t care if it hurts Pubs or their states. There have been several cases of voting fraud by Republicans too, they all need to be stopped & can be reasonably. I continue to allude to primarily Dem states because we see front & center their willingness to discard existing laws to forward their agenda & voting won’t be any different.
There have been insignificant examples of voter fraud/misconduct and that's pretty much it. Nothing has or would have changed an election outcome. This was all investigated and reinvestigated by MAGA paid investigators. Remember Cyber Ninjas? And for what it's worth, I think it's telling that they sidelined Mike Lindell and Rudy Giuliani for this go around. Those guys because laughing stocks for their absurd and ludicrous claims. Many of those claims are being repackaged and recycled now.
What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
You can still get a cavity even if you regularly brush your teeth. And there are security measures to ensure voting is a safe and as secure as possible. I'm not saying that you can't tighten up things and make voting even more secure. There's always room for improvement.
It just seems odd that it's plain to see that the current administration seems to be putting their thumb on the scale so that voting benefits them and their party and everyone in said party seems OK with that.
What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
You can still get a cavity even if you regularly brush your teeth. And there are security measures to ensure voting is a safe and as secure as possible. I'm not saying that you can't tighten up things and make voting even more secure. There's always room for improvement.
It just seems odd that it's plain to see that the current administration seems to be putting their thumb on the scale so that voting benefits them and their party and everyone in said party seems OK with that.
It is voter suppression at its finest.
Females had to submit every marriage certificate to prove each name change, a bill with current address (or some proof of address) and a birth certificate in order to get their real ID drivers license.
But yet that drivers license isn't enough for them to vote even though everything they are asking for (outside of a passport - which is a completely ludicrous voting requirement) was required to get that real ID license to begin with.
He just wants to put up enough hurdles that people will give up their right to vote. Has nothing to do with election security.
What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
If you disenfranchise 1 million voters for the sake of eliminating 1 case of fraud, is that acceptable?
The current level of "fraud" is literally about that level, 1 case per million. While I take it with a grain of salt, I've seen estimates that the current SAVE act could lead to 1 to 5 million votes lost because of the extra hoops that people have to go through.
"The enemy of good is perfection"
Could we make a system that absolutely makes it nigh impossible to commit voter fraud? Maybe. But frankly, there will always be a way for someone to find a gap in the system. You will never eliminate 100% of fraud. But as-is, the levels are in the .0001 percentage level. Literally 10's of cases relative to 300 million. Levels that absolutely have no effect on outcomes. So do I find that to be an acceptable level? Honestly? Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
To put things in perspective, you had higher odds of dying when you got in your car this morning than voter fraud affecting an election outcome. Does that mean that we should lower the national speed limit to 25mph?
And in case you hadn't noticed, we do have screening methods in place that seem to be working in order to keep us at this .0001 percent level.
It's a non-existent problem that you are screaming is in need of a solution. All because Trump can't acknowledge that he lost the 2020 election.
What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
If you disenfranchise 1 million voters for the sake of eliminating 1 case of fraud, is that acceptable?
The current level of "fraud" is literally about that level, 1 case per million. While I take it with a grain of salt, I've seen estimates that the current SAVE act could lead to 1 to 5 million votes lost because of the extra hoops that people have to go through.
"The enemy of good is perfection"
Could we make a system that absolutely makes it nigh impossible to commit voter fraud? Maybe. But frankly, there will always be a way for someone to find a gap in the system. You will never eliminate 100% of fraud. But as-is, the levels are in the .0001 percentage level. Literally 10's of cases relative to 300 million. Levels that absolutely have no effect on outcomes. So do I find that to be an acceptable level? Honestly? Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
To put things in perspective, you had higher odds of dying when you got in your car this morning than voter fraud affecting an election outcome. Does that mean that we should lower the national speed limit to 25mph?
And in case you hadn't noticed, we do have screening methods in place that seem to be working in order to keep us at this .0001 percent level.
It's a non-existent problem that you are screaming is in need of a solution. All because Trump can't acknowledge that he lost the 2020 election.
Please learn what the word disenfranchised means. If people choose not to because they’re lazy or stupid, America wins.
You guys keep throwing statistics around as if you know with certainty how much there is. Two months ago, you would have probably suggested daycare fraud in Minnesota wasn’t significant. The point is, if ways to commit fraud are uncovered they should be removed before they are exploited to a greater degree. Again, will you give up your vote to offset the small number you claim? I’m unwilling to have my vote nullified by fraud.
NO ONE IS BEING DISENFRANCHISED.
Soon? Like two weeks? That seems to be the President's go two length of time for his next big reveal. Funny thing is that the two weeks never ends - it just continues for another two weeks forever.
Standby for yet another big disappointment on 2020 election fraud. President Trump lost the 2020 election just as the pre-election polls predicted he would. Frankly, it would have been a shocker if he had somehow won.
Believing the 2020 election was stolen from Trump remains the surest indication that person is a moron.
What do you think a hypothetical democratic congress and President will do in 2029 with no filibuster in place?
If the filibuster is to be destroyed, and with it the Republic, let it be at Democrats hands so we leave no doubt as to the murderer of the American legislative process. Harry Reid started this BS, and the final death blow should not have Republican finger prints on it.
The Save Act as it stands is a poll tax. It won't pass the Senate because of this. Even with a nuclear option simple majority. Because most senators know that if it did the SC would quickly kill it.
What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
If you disenfranchise 1 million voters for the sake of eliminating 1 case of fraud, is that acceptable?
The current level of "fraud" is literally about that level, 1 case per million. While I take it with a grain of salt, I've seen estimates that the current SAVE act could lead to 1 to 5 million votes lost because of the extra hoops that people have to go through.
"The enemy of good is perfection"
Could we make a system that absolutely makes it nigh impossible to commit voter fraud? Maybe. But frankly, there will always be a way for someone to find a gap in the system. You will never eliminate 100% of fraud. But as-is, the levels are in the .0001 percentage level. Literally 10's of cases relative to 300 million. Levels that absolutely have no effect on outcomes. So do I find that to be an acceptable level? Honestly? Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
To put things in perspective, you had higher odds of dying when you got in your car this morning than voter fraud affecting an election outcome. Does that mean that we should lower the national speed limit to 25mph?
And in case you hadn't noticed, we do have screening methods in place that seem to be working in order to keep us at this .0001 percent level.
It's a non-existent problem that you are screaming is in need of a solution. All because Trump can't acknowledge that he lost the 2020 election.
Please learn what the word disenfranchised means. If people choose not to because they’re lazy or stupid, America wins.
You guys keep throwing statistics around as if you know with certainty how much there is. Two months ago, you would have probably suggested daycare fraud in Minnesota wasn’t significant. The point is, if ways to commit fraud are uncovered they should be removed before they are exploited to a greater degree. Again, will you give up your vote to offset the small number you claim? I’m unwilling to have my vote nullified by fraud.
NO ONE IS BEING DISENFRANCHISED.
Simple solution to this for Republicans. Make these voter IDs, or even better Passports, free and easy to get. If they did this, they may even win over some moderate Dems. Wonder why they won't consider that though? I wonder if there is some ulterior motive to the Save Act.
Also kudos to the GOP on the name selection. They really are the best at naming a turd sandwich in such a way that if you disagree with it you seem "Un-American". Patriot Act, Citizens United, Save Act. Top notch gas lighting propaganda.
@mrhighlife let’s say for the sake of argument that $150 every 10 years to obtain and renew a passport could be considered a “poll tax”.
How much does it cost to produce a birth certificate?
imo, Democrats have a much better argument if they stick to the state control of elections case and not such histrionic nonsense.
That didn’t prevent them from attempting to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights act and Freedom to Vote Act under the Biden admin (speaking of euphemistic names for Bills) however.
One can be forgiven if they think that argument from Democrats is talking out of both sides of their mouth.
Two months ago, you would have probably suggested daycare fraud in Minnesota wasn’t significant.
No one would have said that because no one would have had any significant thought about it, good, bad or indifferent. We say voter fraud isn't significant because Trump and his cronies have been the biggest effin' babies about it as an excuse for losing the 2020 election and have tried to turn over every rock possible to find fraud. They've spent the better part of the last 5-6 years trying to prove Trump lost the election because of some sort of election interference and/or fraud. They got nothing and anyone who believes or 'just knows' wide scale voter fraud is why Trump was a loser in 2020 is just dumb and/or isn't paying attention.
The Save Act as it stands is a poll tax. It won't pass the Senate because of this. Even with a nuclear option simple majority. Because most senators know that if it did the SC would quickly kill it.
What is an acceptable level of fraud in elections?
Do you think that known methods for fraud will not be exploited or expanded?
Do you wait until you’ve gotten a cavity to brush your teeth?
If you disenfranchise 1 million voters for the sake of eliminating 1 case of fraud, is that acceptable?
The current level of "fraud" is literally about that level, 1 case per million. While I take it with a grain of salt, I've seen estimates that the current SAVE act could lead to 1 to 5 million votes lost because of the extra hoops that people have to go through.
"The enemy of good is perfection"
Could we make a system that absolutely makes it nigh impossible to commit voter fraud? Maybe. But frankly, there will always be a way for someone to find a gap in the system. You will never eliminate 100% of fraud. But as-is, the levels are in the .0001 percentage level. Literally 10's of cases relative to 300 million. Levels that absolutely have no effect on outcomes. So do I find that to be an acceptable level? Honestly? Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
To put things in perspective, you had higher odds of dying when you got in your car this morning than voter fraud affecting an election outcome. Does that mean that we should lower the national speed limit to 25mph?
And in case you hadn't noticed, we do have screening methods in place that seem to be working in order to keep us at this .0001 percent level.
It's a non-existent problem that you are screaming is in need of a solution. All because Trump can't acknowledge that he lost the 2020 election.
Please learn what the word disenfranchised means. If people choose not to because they’re lazy or stupid, America wins.
You guys keep throwing statistics around as if you know with certainty how much there is. Two months ago, you would have probably suggested daycare fraud in Minnesota wasn’t significant. The point is, if ways to commit fraud are uncovered they should be removed before they are exploited to a greater degree. Again, will you give up your vote to offset the small number you claim? I’m unwilling to have my vote nullified by fraud.
NO ONE IS BEING DISENFRANCHISED.
Simple solution to this for Republicans. Make these voter IDs, or even better Passports, free and easy to get. If they did this, they may even win over some moderate Dems. Wonder why they won't consider that though? I wonder if there is some ulterior motive to the Save Act.
Also kudos to the GOP on the name selection. They really are the best at naming a turd sandwich in such a way that if you disagree with it you seem "Un-American". Patriot Act, Citizens United, Save Act. Top notch gas lighting propaganda.
I remember when Biden and John Lewis were trying to pass their garbage legislation to steal more elections and the Dems couldn't find one person to bring forward who was legal to vote and didn't have an ID or at minimum couldn't easily get one. Not one.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/2023558983953641830?s=61&t=1KiTJ7EYgX-uQgf4Wkb9sg
This is why - Dem led states have already shown they are willing to disregard our laws as evidenced by lack of immigration enforcement. They’ve tried to remake the electorate, if that doesn’t work they’ll try something else…
The claims in the post you referenced are part of a broader series of allegations made by Elon Musk and members of the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) throughout 2024 and 2025.
Based on independent investigations, state election audits, and fact-checking reports, here is the validity of those specific claims:
1. The "Dog Registered to Vote" Claim
Status: Unsubstantiated / Misleading
The Claim: Musk and others have occasionally posted images of voter registration cards sent to pets or deceased individuals as "proof" of a fraudulent system.
The Reality: Election officials have explained that these incidents almost always involve third-party voter registration groups using outdated mailing lists (like commercial marketing lists), not the official state voter rolls.
Verification: Receiving a mailing addressed to a pet is not the same as a pet being on the voter rolls. To actually register, a valid Social Security number or Driver’s License is required. There is no verified evidence of a dog successfully casting a ballot or being an "active voter" in any official state database.
2. California as a "Hotbed of Voter Fraud"
Status: False / Lack of Evidence
The Claim: Musk has frequently claimed that California’s lack of strict voter ID laws and its use of universal mail-in ballots make it a "hotbed" for fraud.
The Reality: Extensive audits by the California Secretary of State and independent groups (including the Associated Press and FactCheck.org) have consistently found that while administrative errors occur, widespread or "massive" fraud does not.
Security Measures: California uses signature verification for all mail-in ballots. Each ballot has a unique barcode tied to a specific registered voter. If the signature doesn't match the one on file, the ballot is challenged and not counted unless the voter "cures" it (proves their identity).
3. Claims about Non-Citizen Voting
Status: Highly Exaggerated
The Claim: DOGE members (specifically Antonio Gracias) claimed in early 2025 that they found "thousands" of non-citizens on voter rolls by cross-referencing Social Security data.
The Reality: When these lists have been scrutinized in the past (such as in Georgia or Texas), the vast majority of "matches" turned out to be naturalized citizens whose records hadn't been updated in one database but were legal voters.
Expert Consensus: While isolated cases of non-citizens mistakenly registering (often at the DMV) do occur, they represent a tiny fraction of 1% of the total vote—statistically insignificant and nowhere near the "millions" often cited in social media posts.
4. "Illegal to Show ID" in California/New York
Status: False
The Claim: A viral post by Musk claimed it is "illegal" to show your ID in California and New York.
The Reality: It is not illegal for a voter to show their ID. However, state law prohibits poll workers from requesting it as a requirement to vote (unless the person is a first-time voter who didn't provide ID during registration). This distinction is often misrepresented to suggest that identity is never verified, whereas signatures are the primary method of verification in these states.
Summary
The claims made in the post typically rely on anecdotal outliers (like a misaddressed mailer) and frame them as evidence of systemic fraud. While administrative errors exist in any system involving millions of people, there is no credible evidence to support the idea of a "rigged" system or widespread fraudulent voting by dogs or non-citizens in California.
I see a lot of qualifiers such as “almost always”, “widespread”, “massive”, “outliers” etc. - in other words, acknowledging that it does happen. How big should we let it get before we eliminate any chance of fraud? If not every vote counts, will you agree to give yours up to offset these rare instances?
Bottom line is, Dem states have proven a willingness to cheat the American people, some oversight to prevent this is good for the security of our elections, people opposed to it are interested in preserving the possibility of fraud.
How much does it cost to produce a birth certificate?
I think it varies from state to state. Two years ago A few years ago I had to order new copies of my kids' birth certificates for new passports. In Ohio it was a flat $25. Mailing costs aside, to get my daughter's from Arizona I think with taxes it was closer to $50-$60, but I'm not 100% certain on that.
If you disenfranchise 1 million voters for the sake of eliminating 1 case of fraud, is that acceptable?
The current level of "fraud" is literally about that level, 1 case per million. While I take it with a grain of salt, I've seen estimates that the current SAVE act could lead to 1 to 5 million votes lost because of the extra hoops that people have to go through.
"The enemy of good is perfection"
Could we make a system that absolutely makes it nigh impossible to commit voter fraud? Maybe. But frankly, there will always be a way for someone to find a gap in the system. You will never eliminate 100% of fraud. But as-is, the levels are in the .0001 percentage level. Literally 10's of cases relative to 300 million. Levels that absolutely have no effect on outcomes. So do I find that to be an acceptable level? Honestly? Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
To put things in perspective, you had higher odds of dying when you got in your car this morning than voter fraud affecting an election outcome. Does that mean that we should lower the national speed limit to 25mph?
And in case you hadn't noticed, we do have screening methods in place that seem to be working in order to keep us at this .0001 percent level.
It's a non-existent problem that you are screaming is in need of a solution. All because Trump can't acknowledge that he lost the 2020 election.
Well said. Your post gets my vote for Post of the Month.
I'll add a little more.
Significant percentages of old people, the disabled, and low-income Americans lack acceptable photo ID. The elderly, poor people and disabled folks may not have the availability, financial resources, or mobility to obtain the necessary identification. Rural voters may face big hurdles in obtaining the necessary documentation due to their geographic isolation. In addition, many rural and Native Americans born at home or on reservations and tribal lands lack the mandated paperwork needed to obtain a government-issued ID that fits the legal requirements to vote.
Also, people who change their last names after marriage or divorce and don't have a valid ID that reflects their name on the voter rolls may be unable to cast a ballot. College students are also uniquely impacted by these laws, as their primary form of ID can often be a student ID which isn’t always accepted as a valid form for voting. In all these cases, voter ID laws deny eligible voters access to the ballot box.
The more likely results of voter photo ID laws are voter suppression and reduced turnout among vulnerable populations.