i don't want ai. i don't want anymore tech. none. we have an xbox we can't sign into. games we can't sign into. apps we can't sign into. i can't even sign into fucking word at home. passkey. face recognition. fuck off. i don't want ai or any of it. it was easier and better before all this tech bullshit
there's no chance a kid born today will have a better life than a kid born when coh was born. none.
Maybe a statewide law is the blunt instrument necessary to force data centers to do their due diligence and pay upfront to prevent citizens from having to pay.
An individual citizen can’t fight this fight. So who will?
Is it cheaper for an AI company to sign a PPA and/ or pull from their own NatGas/ Nuclear power plant or purchase from the grid at retail rates?
Most businesses hire people and thus provide a benefit to the local community. I am guessing data centers don't need very many people to keep it running. So comparing it to other businesses isn't fully apples to apples
@snarlcakes it's not any business though. "any" business isn't a pull like these as i understand it (and i don't really).
Once again it's just a misunderstanding of how economics work. People look a one thing over a short time period and conclude it's bad.
@snarlcakes it's premature for any of us to make an informed opinion. i'll give you that as the premise of costs hasn't fully been fleshed out. the point i will make is that if it is passed on to residents by way of increased electricity bills in a way that is beyond that of your normal business i have a problem with it.
and that ignores the philosophical as to whether juicing ai is a benefit or a harm. the blind squirrel in the thread is right about ees. these mega centers don't employ many. what's more ai may be taking jobs. i don't want a robot kiosk at the car rental center. i want a human and i want that human to have a career
@snarlcakes it's premature for any of us to make an informed opinion. i'll give you that as the premise of costs hasn't fully been fleshed out. the point i will make is that if it is passed on to residents by way of increased electricity bills in a way that is beyond that of your normal business i have a problem with it.
and that ignores the philosophical as to whether juicing ai is a benefit or a harm. the blind squirrel in the thread is right about ees. these mega centers don't employ many. what's more ai may be taking jobs. i don't want a robot kiosk at the car rental center. i want a human and i want that human to have a career
There is also the universal complaint from farmers about data centers with regards to property values. They have already been fighting tooth-and-nail for years about how ugly wind turbines are and how it is affecting their property values.
The massive AI data centers are just as much of an eyesore and are also creating more traffic, adding transmission / communication towers, and potentially causing environmental effects (heat blooms, visible light at night pollution, etc.).
@squeakyclean all this stuff is complicated and it's hard not to generalize particularly when coming from a position of ignorance which i admittedly am on this topic. i know AI has incredibly beneficial applications - medicine, on and on. it just "feels" like so much going on is being done without meaningful discussion. our reps are a choice between cori bush and wesley bell. literally dumb and dumber in a contest to out woke one another. two people in my office building lobby. any two. would be better.
this is the board of alderman. the president is a devoted socialist who is winning the woke wars. it would be impossible to find a collection of dumber people. together this is who is making decisions on data centers and things. pick any restaurant at lunch in any suburb and say you ten. you're the alderman. and they'd be better equipped.
There are quite a lot of old, abandoned, factories... entire abandoned factory districts, in urban areas... where these Data Centers make quite a lot more sense... in my opinion. The constant hum they produce, would probably hit quite a lot differently in Gary, Hammond, Marion, etc... than it would in a farm field next to a handful of subdivisions. Also, tying in to a cities already established water and sewer system, likely makes more sense than impacting water tables out in rural areas.
Its "easier", and maybe less expensive, to buy 500 acres of open land from some old farmer... but that certainly doesn't mean its the right thing to do, long term. There is ZERO question these massive data centers impact daily life in the surrounding areas. And its a bit much to just trust these massive companies word that "they'll figure out" all these water, power consumption, etc... details. Not to mention the constant humming noises most of them create. I guess taking the potential generational money payout Farmer Joe is set to get (along with the bribery money local officials are getting), isn't great for those missing out.
But take a little extra time, spend a little extra money, and solve multiple real issues by putting these data centers in run down urban factory districts.
@iunorth that’s actually where ours is going. Big as urban armory
@bar-down I honestly haven't dug in and examined all the various issues and evidence. So I'm just speaking from something that seems like common sense. Cities already have noise pollution... so a constant hum... maybe not as big of a deal? They also have a much larger electrical grid, that I would think could take on the power consumption quite a lot more easily. Same with water and sewer usages. And while a data center isn't as appealing as a nice rehabbed retail area, or a nice public park setting... they are probably overall nicer than old, abandoned, collapsing factories...
Its so obvious, to me, that I'm sure I'm missing something. And obviously, those that live in those urban areas, that would be right next door, would have similar gripes to rural neighbors.
@bar-down I honestly haven't dug in and examined all the various issues and evidence. So I'm just speaking from something that seems like common sense. Cities already have noise pollution... so a constant hum... maybe not as big of a deal? They also have a much larger electrical grid, that I would think could take on the power consumption quite a lot more easily. Same with water and sewer usages. And while a data center isn't as appealing as a nice rehabbed retail area, or a nice public park setting... they are probably overall nicer than old, abandoned, collapsing factories...
Its so obvious, to me, that I'm sure I'm missing something. And obviously, those that live in those urban areas, that would be right next door, would have similar gripes to rural neighbors.
Water is a non-issue. Pretty much all new DC's are closed loop and/or use non-potable water.
Northeast and Western states using data centers as a scape goat for their shit energy policies.
https://twitter.com/CityJournal/article/2077092838630735935
@iunorth if I was cognizant of a constant hum I’d eat a bullet before I ended up in the nervous hospital.
Northeast and Western states using data centers as a scape goat for their shit energy policies.
There has been a large amount of blame thrown at AI for both energy cost increases and layoffs across the country, not just NE and W locations. People are aware that their energy bills have gone up and most know that it was already happening before this AI boom, but now regardless of whether it is a %2, %5, or %50 increase that could come to due to AI power consumption, people are pushing back.
@squeakyclean people see a DC go up in their general vicinity and see their utility bill go up and jump to conclusions. Doesn't mean they're correct to blame the DC. The NE and California have eschewed NatGas. That was dumb. California has strangled itself with climate policies. That was dumb.
Do you see a compelling trend line between load growth and price per kilowatt-hour? Because I don't.
Is it not fair then to say that state energy/ climate policy is a much larger factor in residential electricity prices than DC growth?