@iunorth Covid is a glaring example because we were being sold faulty methods and given poor guidance. Some went along, some didn't. The vaccine for instance really hurt people and the masks were worthless. And now we all know the origin story was bunk. I don't want an unquestioning society, especially as it relates to the government.
The Defense Medical Epidemiology Database (DMED), part
of the Defense Medical Surveillance System (DMSS), enables
queries of de-identified medical data coded by International
Classification of Diseases (ICD) classifications for active-duty
personnel, filterable by demographics and occupational
categories. In 2021, whistleblowers reported significant
increases in medical conditions compared to 2016–2020
baselines, prompting congressional scrutiny. The Department
of Defense (DoD) attributed these to a “programming logic
error.”29 In 2023, updated DMED data from 2021 confirmed
elevated diagnoses, including hypertensive disease (22.9%),
ovarian dysfunction (34.9%), pulmonary embolism (43.6%),
Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) (14.9%), esophageal cancer
(12.5%), breast cancer (7%), and unspecified myocarditis
(151.4%).30
Further analyses conducted and verified by Lt. Edward
Macie, USN, through April 2025, using the 2016–2020 baseline,
showed persistent elevations: myocarditis (153.8% in 2023),
infective myocarditis (168.5% in 2021, 122% in 2022, 14% in
2023), digestive organ cancer (15.8% in 2021, 30.2% in 2022,
46.3% in 2023, 43% in 2024), brain cancer (27.2% in 2021, 39%
in 2022, 40.1% in 2023), and coagulation defects (25.3% in
2021, 58% in 2022, 31.8% in 2023). Other conditions, potentially
vaccine-related, included overweight/obesity (27% in 2021,
69% in 2022, 162% in 2023, 262% in 2024), suicidal/homicidal
ideation (45.6% in 2021, 67% in 2022, 80.1% in 2023, 85.6% in
2024), and slip/trip/fall injuries (410% in 2021, 867% in 2022).
We also have significant institutional credibility problems because of the Covid hysteria. The 6 foot rule, masking, closing public parks, etc. were based on nothing. Every state declared an emergency— the first and hopefully only time ever. As a result some governors went wild with issuing all kinds of orders based only on their quest for power and control. The science was there to be seen, but those who bucked the system were ostracized, ridiculed, and branded conspiracy theorists. There was no honest debate about prevention or treatment. There was no public health messaging about keeping yourself healthy. The messaging was about scary stuff, masks, distancing, wiping boxes and more which fed mass hysteria and gave authoritarian governors more authority. It was an awful time in our history.
With that background, millions of people don’t trust government when it comes to vaccine mandates. The damage will take generations to fix.
@jdb A lot of variables, lots of different types of diseases, different types of vaccines, to consider.
I still think the core problem we have right now, is consideration for others. It was VERY, VERY common during the Covid outbreak to hear people rag on others for being out in public with coughs and such...but be indignant as hell when anyone tried to tell them specifically what they could, and should do when they themselves were coughing and sneezing.
When leaders are faced with that reality... and a disease that WAS KILLING, or making very sick, healthy people. Do they just let it happen?
I don't know the answer to this... but do Asian nations like Japan, where mask wearing is much more broadly accepted... do they mandate vaccines? Or do they just trust the consideration of others that's still built in to their society (that used to be a hallmark of our own society), and trust that they'll be able to manage outbreaks without vaccines?
I agree generally with your point on consideration. I think our society is severely lacking vs. even 20 years ago in many respects.
Here is a quick table on the two:
Summary Table
| Country | Are vaccinations mandatory? | MMR Approval & Use | Implementation Details |
|---|---|---|---|
| Japan | No (since 1994; all are recommendations) | MMR not approved; separate MR and mumps vaccines used | Vaccination recommended, but not legally required; high voluntary uptake |
| South Korea | Yes for certain childhood vaccines including MMR | MMR approved and required for school entry | Free under NIP, monitored via registry, mandated by law |
If you want more people to get vaccinated the first step should be taking away big pharmas immunity. If the vax harms me I should be able to sue. That's what gets a lot of people. If they're safe and effective why do they need immunity?
The 6 foot rule, masking, closing public parks, etc. were based on nothing.
That's not entirely true. Distance and masking inherently are going to reduce the probability of spread. It doesn't mean they were going to be effective medium or long-term policies, but it's basic logic that if you are closer to someone vs. farther away or you cover your mouth when you cough vs. don't, there is a difference in infection rate.
That being said, the messaging and delivery was not handled well - though that was not unique to the U.S. (see Europe). The public parks and outdoor restrictions were horrendously handled in some places (e.g., Chicago) and things like that cost institutional credibility.
Are you in favor of eliminating any of the mandates or you think all should be mandatory?
Any vaccine that is used to keep a deadly disease at bay should be mandated.
And any vaccine that is safe but not as urgent, should be available to all and not just those over 65 or people seen as at risk.
Deadly based on what criteria? Everything is deadly to some people…
The 6 foot rule, masking, closing public parks, etc. were based on nothing.
That's not entirely true. Distance and masking inherently are going to reduce the probability of spread. It doesn't mean they were going to be effective medium or long-term policies, but it's basic logic that if you are closer to someone vs. farther away or you cover your mouth when you cough vs. don't, there is a difference in infection rate.
That being said, the messaging and delivery was not handled well - though that was not unique to the U.S. (see Europe). The public parks and outdoor restrictions were horrendously handled in some places (e.g., Chicago) and things like that cost institutional credibility.
@
I don’t know what the end result would have been for the Covid outbreak, had we not done all the things we did…but many, many more millions of people would have died.
You believe millions more Americans would have died if we kept schools open?
The 6 foot rule, masking, closing public parks, etc. were based on nothing.
That's not entirely true. Distance and masking inherently are going to reduce the probability of spread. It doesn't mean they were going to be effective medium or long-term policies, but it's basic logic that if you are closer to someone vs. farther away or you cover your mouth when you cough vs. don't, there is a difference in infection rate.
That being said, the messaging and delivery was not handled well - though that was not unique to the U.S. (see Europe). The public parks and outdoor restrictions were horrendously handled in some places (e.g., Chicago) and things like that cost institutional credibility.
Seems like you are struggling with the perfect solution fallacy.
@bradstevens how you gonna dislike my post about how I want to collapse public schools and then complain about schools being closed during covid?
The 6 foot rule, masking, closing public parks, etc. were based on nothing.
That's not entirely true. Distance and masking inherently are going to reduce the probability of spread. It doesn't mean they were going to be effective medium or long-term policies, but it's basic logic that if you are closer to someone vs. farther away or you cover your mouth when you cough vs. don't, there is a difference in infection rate.
That being said, the messaging and delivery was not handled well - though that was not unique to the U.S. (see Europe). The public parks and outdoor restrictions were horrendously handled in some places (e.g., Chicago) and things like that cost institutional credibility.
Seems like you are struggling with the perfect solution fallacy.
Trying to stop the Covid-19 virus with a surgical or cloth mask is akin to trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence.
🔥
https://twitter.com/SecKennedy/status/1963639455484371299?t=SpgIe2j3L5z4KWm5LttN5Q&s=19
https://twitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1963629548982960395?t=VMxghj-eWww5pT0m6GSoIA&s=19
That’s not entirely true. Distance and masking inherently are going to reduce the probability of spread. It doesn’t mean they were going to be effective medium or long-term policies, but it’s basic logic that if you are closer to someone vs. farther away or you cover your mouth when you cough vs. don’t, there is a difference in infection rate.
That being said, the messaging and delivery was not handled well – though that was not unique to the U.S. (see Europe). The public parks and outdoor restrictions were horrendously handled in some places (e.g., Chicago) and things like that cost institutional credibility.
Yes it is entirely true. The distancing rules were based on nothing. The important variable is time. A few seconds with 6 feet of an infected person is less dangerous than spending hours with an infected person in a poorly ventilated room even if you observe the 6 foot rule.
@co-hoosier spot on re covid. it was a total disaster. our politicians. fauci. our agencies. our media. sad time and a total loss of trust in our institutions.
i am sympathetic to same. however there are some vaccines, polio etc., that have such a long track record and integration into schools etc that to pull those would be insane