I surely changed my view. The first time I ever had any serious thoughts about Gaza was when Rockfish talked about the Israeli blockade. Before that Gaza simply hadn’t entered my mind. Even then I only raised an eyebrow. When Oct 7 happened I was appslled yo put it mildly. I thought Israel's most intelligent response was a la George Bush, post-9/11, garnering world support against Hamas to put serious pressure on them. I was absolutely against Hamas.
Netanyahu’s increasingly ruthless and bloody war campaign gradually began to appall me and eventually I couldn’t stomach it any more. He’s taking on the behavior of his forefathers’ oppressors.
The oppressor/decolonization rhetoric and ideology is at least 25-30 years old now in colleges and has seeped into high school instruction in some places as well:https://news.gallup.com/poll/702440/israelis-no-longer-ahead-americans-middle-east-sympathies.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war_protests_at_universities
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-action-gaza-new-low.aspx
Gemini
- Divestment Movements: The characterization of Israel as an oppressor and Palestinians as the oppressed gained major traction on university campuses around 2002 to 2005. During this time, student groups began organizing Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns.
- Intersectional Frameworks: Over the last decade, particularly after major escalations in Gaza (such as the conflicts in 2014 and 2021), the framework expanded significantly. Activist groups on campus began linking the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to other progressive and social justice movements.
- Post-October 7th Surge: Following the October 7, 2023, attacks and the subsequent war in Gaza, these debates exploded into mass protests, encampments, and widespread faculty-led walkouts. [1, 2, 3]
- Ethnic Studies Debates: The introduction of the "oppressor vs. oppressed" narrative in high schools is much newer, primarily emerging in the 2020s.
- State Curriculum Disputes: In states like California, the adoption of Ethnic Studies curricula has been a major flashpoint. Several Jewish and pro-Israel advocacy groups have argued that certain instructional materials and texts—such as those distributed by the Liberated Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum Consortium (LESMCC)—introduce biased, politically subjective, and sometimes antisemitic frameworks into classrooms.
- National Divide: Critics argue these frameworks brainwash students by erasing historical context. Supporters and educators argue these courses provide necessary decolonial lenses to understand regional disparities and human rights. [1, 2]
- Arguments of Bias: Critics, including some university leadership and pro-Israel organizations, argue that reducing the conflict to a simple oppressor-oppressed dichotomy lacks nuance, erases historical context (like offers for a two-state solution or the actions of Hamas), and fosters campus hostility.
- Arguments of Academic Freedom: Conversely, many academics and student activists defend the curriculum and protests as an urgent defense of human rights and a necessary critique of Israeli government policy and military occupation. [1, 2, 3]
And much of the solidarity with Hamas and Palestine occurred before Israel's response:https://news.gallup.com/poll/702440/israelis-no-longer-ahead-americans-middle-east-sympathies.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_war_protests_at_universities
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-action-gaza-new-low.aspx
Gemini
- October 7 Rallies: Activist groups—such as Within Our Lifetime—organized demonstrations in Midtown Manhattan, Washington Square Park, and other locations. While organizers stated the rallies were to protest against occupation, some speakers drew intense backlash for framing the October 7 attacks as a "glorious victory" and explicitly calling for resistance by "any means necessary".
- October 8 Counter-Protests: Thousands of pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel demonstrators flooded Times Square, resulting in tense, barricaded stand-offs and a heavy police presence. Elected officials, including New York's governor, condemned some of the rhetoric used by pro-Palestinian activists as morally repugnant. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Campus Walkouts: Universities across the country, such as Columbia University and Stanford, saw immediate demonstrations. Pro-Palestinian student groups held walkouts and rallies, while pro-Israel organizations established vigils and memorials for the victims of the Hamas attack.
- Controversial Slogans: The Anti-Defamation League documented multiple incidents where groups at these rallies utilized, chanted, or promoted slogans that explicitly justified Hamas’s actions. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Same as I said to Goat in another thread, absent the full prompt sequence (Gemini concatenates the prompts in a single session), interpreting the response is problematic.
I’m left wondering how widespread such curriculum was nationally and how it affected opinions.
Just to be very clear on my view. I’m anti-hamas, anti-Netanyahu and anti-war. I’m pro-Israelis, pro-Palestinians and pro-peaceniks.
I literally grew up in a neighborhood of Jews, including my best childhood friends. Nothing has changed that.
Just to remind Gemini (snicker), I have multiple times thanked bigoted Ivy League schools for refusing to hire extremely talented Jewish scholars to IU’s and my personal benefit.
One last point to you, Gemini, before you put your skirt back down: I am a humanitarian above subscribing to any politics so you can shove your pathetic pretense at “thinking” up your yeast infection.
You don't need to even respond to the Gemini stuff if you accept the premises I proposed:Same as I said to Goat in another thread, absent the full prompt sequence (Gemini concatenates the prompts in a single session), interpreting the response is problematic.
I’m left wondering how widespread such curriculum was nationally and how it affected opinions.
Just to be very clear on my view. I’m anti-hamas, anti-Netanyahu and anti-war. I’m pro-Israelis, pro-Palestinians and pro-peaceniks.
I literally grew up in a neighborhood of Jews, including my best childhood friends. Nothing has changed that.
Just to remind Gemini (snicker), I have multiple times thanked bigoted Ivy League schools for refusing to hire extremely talented Jewish scholars to IU’s and my personal benefit.
One last point to you, Gemini, before you put your skirt back down: I am a humanitarian above subscribing to any politics so you can shove your pathetic pretense at “thinking” up your yeast infection.
1. The oppressor/decolonization rhetoric and ideology is at least 25-30 years old now in colleges
2. and has seeped into high school instruction in some places as well
3. much of the solidarity with Hamas and Palestine occurred before Israel's response
Feel free to research these to your heart's content, using your preferred method. The first and second are undoubtedly true and the only thing you can quibble with in 3 is how much "much" is.
This race was an eye opener for me. Insane amount of money spent for….
my boomer neighbor thinks it’s for birthright citizenship. Yeah…30 plus million by Israel lobby for that. Gtfoh.
A second problem with AI responses is the source, obviously.
In this first paragraph of your first post above:
”Gemini
@bradstevens sensible people? That’s a lost term. I bought a Tesla and now my house will burn, I’m funding A.I and my kids will be gay. Same people telling me this voted against Massey. We are fooked.
Leave Kentucky, bruh. Head to Nashville or somewhere cool like that.@bradstevens sensible people? That’s a lost term. I bought a Tesla and now my house will burn, I’m funding A.I and my kids will be gay. Same people telling me this voted against Massey. We are fooked.
For starters, I googled:
”Has pew or Gallup or any other professional survey organization surveyed to what extent national or state curriculum to promote a oppressor oppressed viewpoint on the relationship between Israel and Palestinians and how that has affected the views of young people with respect to the Israeli response to the Hamas attack on October 7”
and the answer was such surveys haven’t been done so even if your assertions 1 and 2 are true, that doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on young people’s opinions on the Israeli conduct of its war against Hamas.
Second, the first article cited in your second post was this:
in which is stated:
“CCC data show several thousand days with pro-Palestinian protest activity at hundreds of U.S. public and private schools since October 7, 2023, including encampments at more than 130 of them. The most common demands at these actions have been calls for an end to genocide in Gaza, for Palestinian liberation, and for schools to disclose and divest from financial ties to Israel and weapons manufacturers. Throughout this eight-month wave, organizers have drawn explicit parallels between their goals and tactics and those of students and campus workers who mobilized against apartheid in South Africa in the 1980s.”
My point here is that I don’t necessarily see the correlation I think you’re seeing between that curriculum and a pro-Hamas stance so much as a pro-Palestinian stance. There’s a difference even if some number of young people aren’t aware of the difference—it’s not about anti-semitism, it’s about being humanitarian. Young people care about all humans.
@bradstevens I don’t live in Kentucky. I just work there. If I leave the area it won’t be anywhere near Nashville.
Which of these points are you challenging?A second problem with AI responses is the source, obviously.
In this first paragraph of your first post above:
”Gemini
The timeline of how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is framed in schools depends heavily on context, but organized campaigns to view the issue through an oppressor-oppressed framework became prominent on college campuses in the early 2000s and have increasingly influenced K-12 curricula in the last several years. [1]”The source is an op-ed opinion by a Jewish professor at Tufts and Gemini manages to generalize from his anecdotal experience at Tufts to what you read in this paragraph.I haven’t bothered to vet the rest.
Edit:xpost
1. The oppressor/decolonization rhetoric and ideology is at least 25-30 years old now in colleges
2. The oppressor/decolonization rhetoric and ideology has seeped into high school instruction in some places as well
At the old place we had about 100 pages of examples of woke ideology in schools. I guess we'll have to start it up again if we still have ostriches out there.
I’m not disputing that one and two are and have been prevalent.
I’m just thinking about college aged people and how much they really give a shit about things beyond their own tiny little world and how much any kind of Israeli Palestinian debate has even reached their awareness. I’m talking about the broad swath of college students.
I think far more young people are at the very least tolerant of LGBT, for example, but strictly for humanitarian reasons. Live and let live.
Similarly they’re in favor of X people because they see X people being attacked by an overwhelming force of power. X could be Israeli’s or Palestinians or any other group of people and they would still feel the same way for humanitarian reasons.
Are you thinking that these same youth couldn’t care less about the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7? I find that inconceivable.
As for woke ideology writ large, I think for most young people it’s mainly an open-minded mindset. It doesn’t stop them from being open-minded about conservative ideas, as clearly demonstrated by Chsrlie Kirk.