@spartans9312 they need far less than they would. Imagine if there were no wind and no solar.
What is still missing from this being a war subject to the War Powers Act?
Nothing's missing. It applies any time the Prez sends troops into hostile action abroad.
(For the record, I'm one of those who is fairly certain the War Powers Resolution is unconstitutional, anyway)
@spartans9312 they need far less than they would. Imagine if there were no wind and no solar.
Are they in good shape in that regard? Asking because I do not know. My assumption is they are not and they need oil. To the other point…have they (Europe) taken for granted that we will protect their interests militarily?
@spartans9312 or they just anticipated we wouldn't unilaterally start a war that endangered their oil.
@goat doesn't it just mesh with the Constitution that only gives the power to Congress? Since it reaffirms what is in the Constitution how could it run afoul.
@spartans9312 or they just anticipated we wouldn't unilaterally start a war that endangered their oil.
Did Iran declare war on the U.S.?
We provide the military power so they can spend their money on social programs and green energy projects. It’s great they have decided they don’t need our help.
@spartans9312 they need far less than they would. Imagine if there were no wind and no solar.
Are they in good shape in that regard? Asking because I do not know. My assumption is they are not and they need oil. To the other point…have they (Europe) taken for granted that we will protect their interests militarily?
So, Europe doesn't need petroleum to keep from going dark, but they absolutely do need it to keep from going cold. Not a lot of electrically heated homes in the EU, apparently.
(Can't blame them; I grew up in an electric-only house, and hated it.)
@goat doesn't it just mesh with the Constitution that only gives the power to Congress? Since it reaffirms what is in the Constitution how could it run afoul.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the power." The constitution divides military authority between Congress and the Executive.
@spartans9312 they need far less than they would. Imagine if there were no wind and no solar.
Are they in good shape in that regard? Asking because I do not know. My assumption is they are not and they need oil. To the other point…have they (Europe) taken for granted that we will protect their interests militarily?
So, Europe doesn't need petroleum to keep from going dark, but they absolutely do need it to keep from going cold. Not a lot of electrically heated homes in the EU, apparently.
(Can't blame them; I grew up in an electric-only house, and hated it.)
Total electric here…other than the wood burner
@spartans9312 they need far less than they would. Imagine if there were no wind and no solar.
Are they in good shape in that regard? Asking because I do not know. My assumption is they are not and they need oil. To the other point…have they (Europe) taken for granted that we will protect their interests militarily?
So, Europe doesn't need petroleum to keep from going dark, but they absolutely do need it to keep from going cold. Not a lot of electrically heated homes in the EU, apparently.
(Can't blame them; I grew up in an electric-only house, and hated it.)
Total electric here…other than the wood burner
The "other than" is key. We had no backup. If we lost power, we lost heat.
(Well, we did have a kerosene heater, but I won't tread on my dad's memory by recounting how many times he decided it was safe to fire that thing up in the living room.)
@spartans9312 or they just anticipated we wouldn't unilaterally start a war that endangered their oil.
Did Iran declare war on the U.S.?
We provide the military power so they can spend their money on social programs and green energy projects. It’s great they have decided they don’t need our help.
So if a country bombs us for a month, we are not at war? Japan's ambassador really screwed up, he delivered the declaration late. Once it was late, he should never have delivered it then we would not have been at war.
@goat doesn't it just mesh with the Constitution that only gives the power to Congress? Since it reaffirms what is in the Constitution how could it run afoul.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the power." The constitution divides military authority between Congress and the Executive.
Congress, and only Congress is given the power to declare war. What differentiates this from a war? Did the Founders really write that in but never intended it to be of any use, ever? If a president ordered nuclear launches on China, Russia, France, Pakistan, India, North Korea, and Israel (all countries that would launch nukes back on us), would that be a declaration of war that would require approval?
I understand a strike, like on the nuclear targets, may not be a war (though if someone made a single strike on Oak Ridge I bet we say they declared war on us). But a month of sustained attacks? How is that a war.
If Congress voted for war, I wouldn't necessarily agree but it is their power. Congress refusing to sanction it, or stop it, is pathetic. The system invests in them, and only them, the power to declare war. Why would the FF put that in the document if the intent was for the president to start wars without approval?
I have said that I loved the way both Bush's did it the right way. Maybe they were wrong, but they went to Congress.
We provide the military power so they can spend their money on social programs and green energy projects. It’s great they have decided they don’t need our help.
If Poland decided, unilaterally, to try and take Moscow would you fully back us jumping in to defend Poland? Article 5 is not a "let's go conquer the world", it specifically says if attacked. If Iran started this by attacking shipping, I bet they would have joined in. We started this war.
But maybe Poland should send some ships, the attack Russia to get us to help them.
I don't like it, either, but I have to admit that you can make a good argument our system has evolved beyond our preferences:@goat doesn't it just mesh with the Constitution that only gives the power to Congress? Since it reaffirms what is in the Constitution how could it run afoul.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the power." The constitution divides military authority between Congress and the Executive.
Congress, and only Congress is given the power to declare war. What differentiates this from a war? Did the Founders really write that in but never intended it to be of any use, ever? If a president ordered nuclear launches on China, Russia, France, Pakistan, India, North Korea, and Israel (all countries that would launch nukes back on us), would that be a declaration of war that would require approval?
I understand a strike, like on the nuclear targets, may not be a war (though if someone made a single strike on Oak Ridge I bet we say they declared war on us). But a month of sustained attacks? How is that a war.
If Congress voted for war, I wouldn't necessarily agree but it is their power. Congress refusing to sanction it, or stop it, is pathetic. The system invests in them, and only them, the power to declare war. Why would the FF put that in the document if the intent was for the president to start wars without approval?
I have said that I loved the way both Bush's did it the right way. Maybe they were wrong, but they went to Congress.
- Harry S. Truman: Committed U.S. forces to the Korean War (1950) acting under a U.N. Security Council resolution rather than seeking a declaration of war.
- John F. Kennedy: Approved the CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba (1961) and established a naval blockade (quarantine) of Cuba.
- Lyndon B. Johnson/Richard Nixon: Conducted the Vietnam War and expanded it into Cambodia (Nixon) based on the broad, rather than specific, Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.
- Ronald Reagan: Invaded Grenada (1983) and deployed troops to Lebanon.
- George H.W. Bush: Ordered the invasion of Panama (1989) and deployed troops to Somalia.
- Bill Clinton: Ordered NATO air strikes in Bosnia (1995) and Yugoslavia (1999) and sent troops to Haiti without congressional approval.
- Barack Obama: Authorized military intervention in Libya (2011) and oversaw increased drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia.
- Donald Trump: Ordered missile strikes in Syria (2017, 2018) and the drone strike against Qasem Soleimani in Iran (2020) without specific authorization.
- Joe Biden: Authorized airstrikes in Yemen in 2024 and 2025.
- While these actions did not have a specific, pre-approved "declaration of war," they often involved informing Congress under the 1973 War Powers Resolution or arguing they were covered by broader authorizations, such as the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) passed after 9/11.
@goat doesn't it just mesh with the Constitution that only gives the power to Congress? Since it reaffirms what is in the Constitution how could it run afoul.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the power." The constitution divides military authority between Congress and the Executive.
Congress, and only Congress is given the power to declare war. What differentiates this from a war? Did the Founders really write that in but never intended it to be of any use, ever? If a president ordered nuclear launches on China, Russia, France, Pakistan, India, North Korea, and Israel (all countries that would launch nukes back on us), would that be a declaration of war that would require approval?
I understand a strike, like on the nuclear targets, may not be a war (though if someone made a single strike on Oak Ridge I bet we say they declared war on us). But a month of sustained attacks? How is that a war.
If Congress voted for war, I wouldn't necessarily agree but it is their power. Congress refusing to sanction it, or stop it, is pathetic. The system invests in them, and only them, the power to declare war. Why would the FF put that in the document if the intent was for the president to start wars without approval?
I have said that I loved the way both Bush's did it the right way. Maybe they were wrong, but they went to Congress.
To be honest I'm not sure the act of declaring war means much anymore. Last time we actually declared war was Germany and Japan, I think.