Has this thread turned into a gas price ticker?
How spoiled are Americans?
If Iran is a legitimate lasting threat to global security, then the question isn’t how much do oil or fertilizer prices go up, but how do we destroy and replace that regime most efficiently.
If attacking Iran is the right thing to do, then it’s the right thing to do. There’s no purpose in bitching about energy prices or political polls. I wish opponents of the war wouldn’t cite such things.
Instead, make your case for how the Iranian regime was trustworthy and non-violent. And loved America.
We aren't destroying and replacing anything.
Garbage. 2/3 of the drones and missile and launchers are either destroyed or buried under rubble.
If they poke their head up, a satellite sees them and we kill them.
Trump doesn’t want Thomas Jefferson, he wants an Islamist thug who cares about their own life enough to be reasoned with and controlled.
Has this thread turned into a gas price ticker?
How spoiled are Americans?
If Iran is a legitimate lasting threat to global security, then the question isn’t how much do oil or fertilizer prices go up, but how do we destroy and replace that regime most efficiently.
If attacking Iran is the right thing to do, then it’s the right thing to do. There’s no purpose in bitching about energy prices or political polls. I wish opponents of the war wouldn’t cite such things.
Instead, make your case for how the Iranian regime was trustworthy and non-violent. And loved America.
We aren't destroying and replacing anything.
Garbage. 2/3 of the drones and missile and launchers are either destroyed or buried under rubble.
If they poke their head up, a satellite sees them and we kill them.
Trump doesn’t want Thomas Jefferson, he wants an Islamist thug who cares about their own life enough to be reasoned with and controlled.
So Iran can drive gas prices up to almost $5 per gallon w just 1/3 of their pre-war drones and missile launchers? Honestly, they could do the same with much less.
I'm just glad rising oil/gas prices don't have any bearing on the prices of anything else.
.
No one particularly responds to the points that the administration sucks at selling the war. First and foremost, they had to sell it to Americans and allies BEFORE it started.
We have heard as reasons that they were about to launch a first strike, and that a bomb was imminent. We know the first was BS, as was the second. Trump had said Midnight Hammer set back their program "decades." Just yesterday Hegseth said Midnight Hammer "obliterated" their program.
So we did not have to launch this war now for either reason. Leaving it to certainly appear that Israel wanted to control part of Lebanon and we decided to help.
Obviously we thought we could do this and control the situation. There is reporting out that the troops killed in Saudi Arabia early on did not have drone protection. Hegseth yesterday did not directly refute that. So we launched an attack when we did without having all our defensive assets deployed, costing us lives. We began the war with the minesweepers halfway around the world.
It seems obvious we launched based solely on the decapitation. That would lead to the logical conclusion, we thought that was all that was needed. Hit a couple of key other leaders and military units and Iran will collapse.
So now we are at the cease fire. I cannot fault the administration for this but it clearly is because we are out of weapons. We can no longer sustain the pace we were on and we would have to slow up, making us look weaker.
None of that has anything to do with the next question .
Leaving now creates major problems. I feel like Germans learning we were at war with the USSR. There were undoubtedly Germans who saw that as a massive mistake, but, once made there weren't a lot of choices beyond "don't lose to the Soviets." Late in the war it exhibited itself by maps tracking Allied advance compared to Soviet and repeated threats from Hitler to western commanders to defend or else.
So now we are stuck, we have to have the Straight open and we have to have the program stopped. If there was doubt before, and there was as we fought proxy wars against the soviets for 40 years without anyone going nuclear. So no guarantees before now. But now, we must assume they will want serious revenge.
No one particularly responds to the points that the administration sucks at selling the war. First and foremost, they had to sell it to Americans and allies BEFORE it started.
We have heard as reasons that they were about to launch a first strike, and that a bomb was imminent. We know the first was BS, as was the second. Trump had said Midnight Hammer set back their program "decades." Just yesterday Hegseth said Midnight Hammer "obliterated" their program.
So we did not have to launch this war now for either reason. Leaving it to certainly appear that Israel wanted to control part of Lebanon and we decided to help.
Obviously we thought we could do this and control the situation. There is reporting out that the troops killed in Saudi Arabia early on did not have drone protection. Hegseth yesterday did not directly refute that. So we launched an attack when we did without having all our defensive assets deployed, costing us lives. We began the war with the minesweepers halfway around the world.
It seems obvious we launched based solely on the decapitation. That would lead to the logical conclusion, we thought that was all that was needed. Hit a couple of key other leaders and military units and Iran will collapse.
So now we are at the cease fire. I cannot fault the administration for this but it clearly is because we are out of weapons. We can no longer sustain the pace we were on and we would have to slow up, making us look weaker.
None of that has anything to do with the next question .
Leaving now creates major problems. I feel like Germans learning we were at war with the USSR. There were undoubtedly Germans who saw that as a massive mistake, but, once made there weren't a lot of choices beyond "don't lose to the Soviets." Late in the war it exhibited itself by maps tracking Allied advance compared to Soviet and repeated threats from Hitler to western commanders to defend or else.
So now we are stuck, we have to have the Straight open and we have to have the program stopped. If there was doubt before, and there was as we fought proxy wars against the soviets for 40 years without anyone going nuclear. So no guarantees before now. But now, we must assume they will want serious revenge.
We do not have to have the Strait open. Eventually, higher prices and the market will take care of the problem. The question is does Trump think the blockade it's worth losing badly in the fall. I still think oil and rates need to go higher before we find out how committed he is to it.
We do not have to have the Strait open. Eventually, higher prices and the market will take care of the problem.
You don't think Iranian missiles can hit Saudi pipelines?
We do not have to have the Strait open. Eventually, higher prices and the market will take care of the problem.
You don't think Iranian missiles can hit Saudi pipelines?
No, and if they could (or did) Iran would be destroyed. It would mean Trump was correct in attacking Iran and you would see everyone starting to turn on Iran, including China.
So now we are stuck, we have to have the Straight open and we have to have the program stopped. If there was doubt before, and there was as we fought proxy wars against the soviets for 40 years without anyone going nuclear. So no guarantees before now. But now, we must assume they will want serious revenge.Assuming you mean Iran (not soviets) will want revenge…
NB: Contrary to any appearances, I am taking taking pragmatic pacifist, not a pro-Palestinian view.
In the final analysis, your question is premised on Iran being the aggressor. Is it? Or has it always been Israel with the US as Israel’s proxy? Allow me to elaborate.
On Day One of Israel as a nation with physical territory, some Palestinians were denied parts of their homeland and denied any international status as a people or nation. On that day were the Palestinians the aggressor?
Let’s define genocide as denying the existence of. A human/conceptual definition. Imagine waking up and the world denied you exist. No human recognized you. No one communicated with you. You just didn’t exist for anyone. Your survival potential would be negligible. You go for walk, come home and your house has been bulldozed, police don’t respond to your pleas for help.
By that definition, genocide of the Palestinians began on that day. Who was the aggressor?
Getting back to your point about Iran exacting revenge. Is that really what they want? Or do they want Israel and its proxies to finally leave Iran and its friends in peace for first since before 1950?
@bar-down I never made any claims on that. Just that yesterday Hegseth said Midnight Hammer "obliterated" the program. Trump previously said it set Iran back "decades." So what evidence do we have any of this was untrue? If it was, why are they lying in such a way to undermine the current war?
I haven't complained about Midnight Hammer. I am not even saying this war was wrong. I am saying launching without selling it was a horrible choice. 43 sold Iraq, sold it really well. Everything Trump does is based on "it is better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission", except he doesn't beg for forgiveness.
"I act, you follow" works for some. We are seeing it doesn't work for enough.
@arthur-dent read your post. You said a bomb was imminent was not true. What was represented was that the enrichment level was weeks away. Hence a bomb was imminent. Is that true or not?
@snarlcakes you miss my point. I am not debating if the attack was valid. I am saying the lack of public support is directly due to the administration not trying to win support at all. I keep comparing it with 43. Bush was not popular with Dems, you may not have been around the board but the term BDS was as frequent as TDS. Yet many Dems supported Iraq, including myself and Rockfish. Believe me, no one was more anti Bush than Rockfish.
Trump and his team did nothing to prepare us for this war. That is why the war is completely underwater in polls.
And we were unprepared, the missing anti drone protection and lack of minesweepers prove that.