If a married couple both works in those jobs of course they can afford a house. Maybe not in Manhattan, but in plenty of other places.ok thats one sector. Sales. Not all sales jobs are equal in pay. but even if they were there is only so many of those positions available. Nepotism and cronyism runs rampant in that sector. Probably more than others. So management positions are even harder to get.no but store managers probably clear 150k but again it’s a grinder job. The grinders win. The job ain’t technical. It’s like insurance. If you suffer for ten years you’ll be in mgmt and then you just grind other people.It is that they can’t. Enterprise can’t have a million regional managers.@bradstevens it’s not that they can’t it’s that they won’t. And it’s precisely what @larsiu said. They won’t work 6 days a week for ten years putting up with shit, washing cars, and grinding. “If you’re a fucking savage and get out there and grind and work hard you can run all these people over. The next gen are such pussies. For the small group of savages just run these Fing kids over. There’s never been as much opportunity as now.” Dana white. Now he’s a lunatic but I do generally agree with him
Being a teacher, cop, firefighter, countless factory jobs, used to be enough to buy a house. No more.
You don’t have an entitlement to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn.
@hurryinghoosiers and the gross irony is that your party wants to take away from those who do work that hard to give it to those who don’t, or made mistakes, are 22 with 4 kids and 3 baby daddies and smell like weed at 9 am
What's really sad is how this characterization of people who get some kind of assistance is so prominent. I've been on the receiving end. I'm not lazy or stupid, but I have been poor. All I ever asked for was a chance to afford health insurance, and people like you have pilloried me for it. Fuck you.
@bradstevens exactly. and re the finite number of jobs that pay well i understand the point you and highlife are making. it's valid. of course. and true. but those same people who are capable of those jobs likely can find similar opportunities or have the grind and grit to open a fence company that excels. the point is that opportunity exists in this country and many of the folks in need of help do so because of their own bad decisions. so people who haven't fckd up shouldn't have to subsidize them. i've basically had two divorces and started my own company thereby delaying any sort of retirement for at least another ten years. why doesn't the gov bail out my bad decisions. reimburse me what i paid out in divorces
@bradstevens well yeah but that’s how it’s always been. Absent some kind of star trekkian utopian future under our new AI overlords I don’t have much hope for socialism solving our inequality problems.
but, certain socialistic ideas could help smooth the future road. Single payer. Heavily subsidized child care and education. Etc.
but housing is weird because it involves private property rights.
I thought they were voting communist for free public transportation in NY.
@unclemark that characterization is reality. 60 percent of benes go to households with kids. why are they having kids? i know that's harsh but jesus. someone else is paying for your kids. and kids should never suffer. i'd always be funding it but at some reality is reality. irresponsible people. and fuck you. we pay for you. so how about instead of a fuck you a thank you.
Not always and certainly not to the standard of previous generations. Throw kids into the mix. Now they are deciding between daycare or both working. One ends up working just to pay for daycare.If a married couple both works in those jobs of course they can afford a house. Maybe not in Manhattan, but in plenty of other places.ok thats one sector. Sales. Not all sales jobs are equal in pay. but even if they were there is only so many of those positions available. Nepotism and cronyism runs rampant in that sector. Probably more than others. So management positions are even harder to get.no but store managers probably clear 150k but again it’s a grinder job. The grinders win. The job ain’t technical. It’s like insurance. If you suffer for ten years you’ll be in mgmt and then you just grind other people.It is that they can’t. Enterprise can’t have a million regional managers.@bradstevens it’s not that they can’t it’s that they won’t. And it’s precisely what @larsiu said. They won’t work 6 days a week for ten years putting up with shit, washing cars, and grinding. “If you’re a fucking savage and get out there and grind and work hard you can run all these people over. The next gen are such pussies. For the small group of savages just run these Fing kids over. There’s never been as much opportunity as now.” Dana white. Now he’s a lunatic but I do generally agree with him
Being a teacher, cop, firefighter, countless factory jobs, used to be enough to buy a house. No more.
You don’t have an entitlement to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn.
of course no one is entitled to live in Brooklyn or Manhattan. But in a good and well functioning society you'd like to be able to say that the public servants who work in your area, can also afford to live in your area. At least somewhere.
@larsiu read that Walmart area managers were making as much as $600k with bonuses. Has to be a miserable job. And if you think about all the people inventory etc that’s a big job
A former IT coworker graduated IU and went to WalMart. He would get keys from the contractor toward the end of construction, like 60 or 90 days out, and worked to have it setup and ready for opening day. Then he was sent to another store. He said for two years he never had a day off, missed weddings and funerals.
So he asked to be moved to a store, was a manager of a Super Center. Worked that for a while, then decided it wasn't worth it and came to IU to work where no one that actually works makes money.
There is nothing wrong with work life balance.
@mrhighlife I dunno if enterprise or rent a center or Walmart or Meijer or whatever are struggling to find people. But those jobs aren’t sexy. And they’re hard. I don’t want to sound like some crotchety boomer but do today’s 23 y/o’s (college grad or not) want to slog away at that kind of gig. I dunno. Different generation. They probably thought they’d be coding or involved in a startup or wallstreetbets apes. Who knows. But I do know that my dad worked at a total of two companies from my birth til his retirement. That doesn’t happen much anymore.
I do think corporations play a part in that. Training has gone to shit all over the place. But then again who wants to make that kind of investment in people when they just leave two years later and you’re doing it all over again. Better to invest in automation or AI agents at this point.
Nah. You can’t just “do a start up.” Come on.@bradstevens for sure. But they could sell drugs. Knee replacement systems. Do a start up. It’s because most people won’t work that hard
I do think there are still plenty of ways for people just starting out to make a living, own a house, etc. Like you said, though, they might have to pick a less sexy place to live than NYC.
But the notion that anyone can land a 200-300k/yr job is unreasonable. A young, married couple can bring in $100k combined pretty easily, and that can get you a starter home, a couple of used cars, etc. Again, though, not in NYC.
I think it is true that some Mamdani voters are college grads who moved to NYC and expected to be making enough to live it up there and are snobbish about leaving. Fuck them. But I don’t know what % of Mamdani voters are those types.
we've had threads on birth rates dropping dramatically in the US. What's your stance there?@unclemark that characterization is reality. 60 percent of benes go to households with kids. why are they having kids? i know that's harsh but jesus. someone else is paying for your kids. and kids should never suffer. i'd always be funding it but at some reality is reality. irresponsible people. and fuck you. we pay for you. so how about instead of a fuck you a thank you.
@bradstevens honestly i think you're wrong. i think you don't know bc of law. and no offense. but over the last ten years i've been shocked at how much other shit pays. stupid shit. shit you only need a bachelors from a directional school. a couple can make $200k by 30 with pretty damn average careers. hell boa minimum wage is now $25. for a teller. compared to so many other fields law is a pretty bad deal financially unless you're in big law or hit some homeruns. hell nurses can make $150k with a two year degree
@mrhighlife i don't really have an opinion other than kids are not cheap. at all. and i will also add to @unclemark i would never cut off snap. no one should starve. and my god kids should never be hungry. i'd fund it no matter what. it's the entitled framing of the left that i cannot stand. the expectation someone else should have to pay for it
There is nothing wrong with work life balance.
of course. there are tradeoffs. i'm sure he gave up an earlier retirement, the ability to better support his kids down the road, and a 911 that he'll to pass on for a miata and pretend
I know lots of cops and firefighters and teachers in Chicago. They find cheaper neighborhoods to live in. They own houses and cars and have kids.Not always and certainly not to the standard of previous generations. Throw kids into the mix. Now they are deciding between daycare or both working. One ends up working just to pay for daycare.If a married couple both works in those jobs of course they can afford a house. Maybe not in Manhattan, but in plenty of other places.ok thats one sector. Sales. Not all sales jobs are equal in pay. but even if they were there is only so many of those positions available. Nepotism and cronyism runs rampant in that sector. Probably more than others. So management positions are even harder to get.no but store managers probably clear 150k but again it’s a grinder job. The grinders win. The job ain’t technical. It’s like insurance. If you suffer for ten years you’ll be in mgmt and then you just grind other people.It is that they can’t. Enterprise can’t have a million regional managers.@bradstevens it’s not that they can’t it’s that they won’t. And it’s precisely what @larsiu said. They won’t work 6 days a week for ten years putting up with shit, washing cars, and grinding. “If you’re a fucking savage and get out there and grind and work hard you can run all these people over. The next gen are such pussies. For the small group of savages just run these Fing kids over. There’s never been as much opportunity as now.” Dana white. Now he’s a lunatic but I do generally agree with him
Being a teacher, cop, firefighter, countless factory jobs, used to be enough to buy a house. No more.
You don’t have an entitlement to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn.
of course no one is entitled to live in Brooklyn or Manhattan. But in a good and well functioning society you'd like to be able to say that the public servants who work in your area, can also afford to live in your area. At least somewhere.
Your purchasing power comp is not exact because you aren’t taking into account quality of life. Some examples: 50 years ago we didn’t have internet or cell phones or $200 giant flat screen TVs. Our cars didn’t last as long and weren’t as reliable.