Literally everything in his history says the realistic results will be incremental improvements.
And I'll take that as long as we see them as this season progresses and then see them next year and thereafter. Cig and May are outliers, and anyone thinking that there are coaches out there that could pull that off if we only would back up the Brinks truck are kidding themselves.
i understand your point but i’m not sure i agree on “incremental improvements “.
there is all kinds of chatter on here and one of the heaviest posters likes to break things down into National Championship contender programs, and programs in our conference (PU), and how they will never compete for a title. That we shouldn’t as a program aspire to be a PU type program, and then talk about programs like U-Conn , Duke and Fl and map some imaginary path that has IU winning multiple titles just like them.
it’s nonsense.
first of all it’s utter nonsense to say that PU can’t win a National Championship, or that they aren’t a title contender. I can hear it now; it’s only because of a once in a generation player that they were even a national title pretender. Ok. But they went to an elite eight before that and have been a top 5 team after that.
do I think PU will win it all in the near future. No. NO and no.
but, they are 100 times more likely to than IU will ever be.
We need to be realistic. IU isn’t a top 25 program. I don’t care if they end this season in the top 25. The program is a middling BT program. On the flip side, it should be relatively easy to immediately set a baseline that will change that. How difficult should it be to make the tournament 90% of the time? How difficult should it be to consistently finish in the top 3rd of the conference?
@unclemark , I’m sorry to be so long winded. I agree Cig is a unicorn. But so is IU ever being a FLA, U -conn, etc. I don’t think IU ever wins another title. I certainly don’t think we are some magical program that is one of a dozen that can and will consistently compete for titles while programs like PU cannot (which is dumb, because they already are). It’s really, really hard to win it all. Getting over that last hump, Sorry Woodson, is really, really difficult.
on the other hand being a program like an IL shouldn’t be that hard. Before anyone here again compares us to Duke or speaks of a unicorn leading the team, let’s first establish ourselves as a program that isn’t staring up at Northwestern and Iowa in the conference. Maybe that IS incremental.
Pretty f'ing difficult for IU.How difficult should it be to make the tournament 90% of the time? How difficult should it be to consistently finish in the top 3rd of the conference?
It all went to hell when the high schools went to a class basketball tournament. 😆 Lost the mojo.
@gerdis The path I laid out, if that's what you're referring to, was more of a comparison with a couple blue bloods that took a few years, that could be a decent path for IU to finally get back to that level. But in the actual path laid out, It mentioned getting rolling and competing for B10 titles and FFs. The UConn and Florida comparisons, were to show what can happen when a very good and smart basketball coach, gets paired with a program that has tons of resources. In their case, it produced National Championships. I'm not sure why it couldn't for DeVries, and IU? But B10 titles and FFs, was the measure I ended up using...
The success of the football program, and Dolson and our NIL world's reaction to it, should be proof that when an IU BBall coach "gets the program rolling", that they will have every resource at their disposal to keep it rolling. Making definitive statements that "they'll never win one again"??... when those things happen, is dumb, obviously. And it WILL happen again, at some point. Maybe CDD is that guy, maybe not. But it will happen, at some point. And it doesn't have to happen immediately, for it to start becoming an increasingly likely thing to happen.
Incremental success. Finish this year in a solid manner, NCAA's or not. Bring back key guys like Sisley, Dorn, Harris, Ritsic... Moody and Karvala join them... bring in a stud PG, a couple good bigs, and a shooter/scorer, via the portal...all of them with an eye on physicality and athleticism. Get incrementally better next year. Bring back Sisley, Harris, Ritsic, Moody, Karvala, a couple more impactful guys from next years roster... bring in even better rotation guys that are needed... then, yes, they would be "off and running".
And when IU gets off and running, it will hopefully look a lot different than what Purdue and Wisconsin types of programs have been, at their best. Namely more NBA caliber players and athletes being the difference. Because history has been pretty darn clear...NCAA champs have NBA guys in their rotation.
@gerdis The path I laid out, if that's what you're referring to, was more of a comparison with a couple blue bloods that took a few years, that could be a decent path for IU to finally get back to that level. But in the actual path laid out, It mentioned getting rolling and competing for B10 titles and FFs. The UConn and Florida comparisons, were to show what can happen when a very good and smart basketball coach, gets paired with a program that has tons of resources. In their case, it produced National Championships. I'm not sure why it couldn't for DeVries, and IU? But B10 titles and FFs, was the measure I ended up using...
The success of the football program, and Dolson and our NIL world's reaction to it, should be proof that when an IU BBall coach "gets the program rolling", that they will have every resource at their disposal to keep it rolling. Making definitive statements that "they'll never win one again"??... when those things happen, is dumb, obviously. And it WILL happen again, at some point. Maybe CDD is that guy, maybe not. But it will happen, at some point. And it doesn't have to happen immediately, for it to start becoming an increasingly likely thing to happen.
Incremental success. Finish this year in a solid manner, NCAA's or not. Bring back key guys like Sisley, Dorn, Harris, Ritsic... Moody and Karvala join them... bring in a stud PG, a couple good bigs, and a shooter/scorer, via the portal...all of them with an eye on physicality and athleticism. Get incrementally better next year. Bring back Sisley, Harris, Ritsic, Moody, Karvala, a couple more impactful guys from next years roster... bring in even better rotation guys that are needed... then, yes, they would be "off and running".
And when IU gets off and running, it will hopefully look a lot different than what Purdue and Wisconsin types of programs have been, at their best. Namely more NBA caliber players and athletes being the difference. Because history has been pretty darn clear...NCAA champs have NBA guys in their rotation.
when you say….
And it WILL happen again, at some point.
….you are referring to winning a National Championship?
@gerdis Yes. They will win a national championship again, at some point. Will CDD do it? Not sure...he'll have to figure out how to get better athletes, and more NBA ready players on his roster, to do it... but he's smart, and a notoriously hard worker. IU's resources absolutely can push the right coach to winning a Natty, yes. We just haven't had that guy since RMK, for a bunch of different reasons.
But my 3 year path...not saying they'll win a Natty in CDD's 3rd year...just that the path I laid out would have them positioned to start competing for things like that. But that has to assume he'll upgrade the talent.
@gerdis Yes. They will win a national championship again, at some point. Will CDD do it? Not sure...he'll have to figure out how to get better athletes, and more NBA ready players on his roster, to do it... but he's smart, and a notoriously hard worker. IU's resources absolutely can push the right coach to winning a Natty, yes. We just haven't had that guy since RMK, for a bunch of different reasons.
But my 3 year path...not saying they'll win a Natty in CDD's 3rd year...just that the path I laid out would have them positioned to start competing for things like that. But that has to assume he'll upgrade the talent.
He’ll need to massively upgrade the talent to get anywhere close to that level. He’ll also need to demonstrate the sort of coaching prowess that he hasn’t in his career. Not saying he can’t or won’t, but he’s not shown the qualities (yet) of a national championship level coach.
@gerdis Yes. They will win a national championship again, at some point. Will CDD do it? Not sure...he'll have to figure out how to get better athletes, and more NBA ready players on his roster, to do it... but he's smart, and a notoriously hard worker. IU's resources absolutely can push the right coach to winning a Natty, yes. We just haven't had that guy since RMK, for a bunch of different reasons.
But my 3 year path...not saying they'll win a Natty in CDD's 3rd year...just that the path I laid out would have them positioned to start competing for things like that. But that has to assume he'll upgrade the talent.
He’ll need to massively upgrade the talent to get anywhere close to that level. He’ll also need to demonstrate the sort of coaching prowess that he hasn’t in his career. Not saying he can’t or won’t, but he’s not shown the qualities (yet) of a national championship level coach.
The issues won't be coaching imo but whether or not he can put together a good enough roster. Recruiting and NIL are still big question marks. DVV probably needs $15M year to be competitive with the top programs.
@gerdis Yes. They will win a national championship again, at some point. Will CDD do it? Not sure...he'll have to figure out how to get better athletes, and more NBA ready players on his roster, to do it... but he's smart, and a notoriously hard worker. IU's resources absolutely can push the right coach to winning a Natty, yes. We just haven't had that guy since RMK, for a bunch of different reasons.
But my 3 year path...not saying they'll win a Natty in CDD's 3rd year...just that the path I laid out would have them positioned to start competing for things like that. But that has to assume he'll upgrade the talent.
He’ll need to massively upgrade the talent to get anywhere close to that level. He’ll also need to demonstrate the sort of coaching prowess that he hasn’t in his career. Not saying he can’t or won’t, but he’s not shown the qualities (yet) of a national championship level coach.
The issues won't be coaching imo but whether or not he can put together a good enough roster. Recruiting and NIL are still big question marks. DVV probably needs $15M year to be competitive with the top programs.
Understand those realities but I still think the jury’s out on whether he has the coaching chops to get us to the elite level, even with an elite roster Knight could get us there without an elite roster, and we were spoiled by that.
@jackskip23 Neither did Hurley or Golden, until they did. You very well could end up being right. I don't like some of the inconsistencies we're seeing with this team right now...that have much less to do with talent, than just focus and resolve.
But... he's widely regarded as a tireless worker. And many that have worked with him say he's one of the smartest basketball minds they've worked with. If he's open, and then able, to bring in NBA levels of guys, those traits he has shown, combined with IU's resources... there's no reason he couldn't win big at IU.
@gerdis Yes. They will win a national championship again, at some point. Will CDD do it? Not sure...he'll have to figure out how to get better athletes, and more NBA ready players on his roster, to do it... but he's smart, and a notoriously hard worker. IU's resources absolutely can push the right coach to winning a Natty, yes. We just haven't had that guy since RMK, for a bunch of different reasons.
But my 3 year path...not saying they'll win a Natty in CDD's 3rd year...just that the path I laid out would have them positioned to start competing for things like that. But that has to assume he'll upgrade the talent.
Ok, so it’s dumb to say they will never win another NC, but you can say they “will”?
IU hasn’t won a title in 39 years.
no B10 team has in 25 years, that includes multiple teams having #1 seeds during that time.
we don’t even know if there will be national champions 49 years from now. Can I absolutely say they won’t win another title ever? Of course not. Can you say they absolutely will win another title? If I were a betting man (though no bet would exist for that time frame), I know where I’m placing my chips.
@gerdis Yes. They will win a national championship again, at some point. Will CDD do it? Not sure...he'll have to figure out how to get better athletes, and more NBA ready players on his roster, to do it... but he's smart, and a notoriously hard worker. IU's resources absolutely can push the right coach to winning a Natty, yes. We just haven't had that guy since RMK, for a bunch of different reasons.
But my 3 year path...not saying they'll win a Natty in CDD's 3rd year...just that the path I laid out would have them positioned to start competing for things like that. But that has to assume he'll upgrade the talent.
He’ll need to massively upgrade the talent to get anywhere close to that level. He’ll also need to demonstrate the sort of coaching prowess that he hasn’t in his career. Not saying he can’t or won’t, but he’s not shown the qualities (yet) of a national championship level coach.
The issues won't be coaching imo but whether or not he can put together a good enough roster. Recruiting and NIL are still big question marks. DVV probably needs $15M year to be competitive with the top programs.
I was not sure if cig would follow up year two like year one but he did and they are now giving his assistants big money. the NIL money is going to go to football and so it the fan interest. Just look at this site the football board has three times as many posts as the bbal board and that would have been the opposite a few years ago. Until or if DD proves he can win his NIL will likely be limited as IU has now shifted to football. Could be a reason no big name would come here because the NIL would not be high enough. In this day and age you have to have high NIL to be competitive and not so sure DD will have that. BYU is a perfect example of what a ton of money can do to a program.
With our current roster and what so far we have for next year we are nowhere near the level needed to compete at high level.
@gerdis Yes. They will win a national championship again, at some point. Will CDD do it? Not sure...he'll have to figure out how to get better athletes, and more NBA ready players on his roster, to do it... but he's smart, and a notoriously hard worker. IU's resources absolutely can push the right coach to winning a Natty, yes. We just haven't had that guy since RMK, for a bunch of different reasons.
But my 3 year path...not saying they'll win a Natty in CDD's 3rd year...just that the path I laid out would have them positioned to start competing for things like that. But that has to assume he'll upgrade the talent.
Ok, so it’s dumb to say they will never win another NC, but you can say they “will”?
IU hasn’t won a title in 39 years.
no B10 team has in 25 years, that includes multiple teams having #1 seeds during that time.
we don’t even know if there will be national champions 49 years from now. Can I absolutely say they won’t win another title ever? Of course not. Can you say they absolutely will win another title? If I were a betting man (though no bet would exist for that time frame), I know where I’m placing my chips.
The chances of us winning a title again are not great as of now nor are they for any big ten team. The last big ten title was in like 2000 I think.
@gerdis I do think its dumb to say they'll never win one again... yes. 39 years is a really, really long time. And I'm not saying CDD is going to win one any time soon. All I'm making the case for... a good coach + IU's resources = a program that can win a natty. Since we won in 87, we had numerous teams that could have won it...like the types of teams I'm referring to, that CDD could build the team back to in a few years. Cheaney's teams had a couple chances...very well could have won it if not for Henderson's knee injury. The Bailey, Henderson, Evans team had the juice to do it, right after the Cheaney teams. Mike Davis was 8 minutes away from doing it, for Pete's sake. Sampson had arguably the best team in the nation in his 2nd year, and would have contended for it if it all hadn't imploded. Crean had one of the best teams in the nation Jordy's senior year, and had a team that could have won it. What has happened since then... is maybe what's giving some the feeling of hopelessness? Not moving on Crean maybe as quickly as we should have, and then 2 really poor coaches.
CDD should be a better choice than the previous 2... And basically every coach in IU's history, back to McCracken, has been able to build at least 1 or 2 championship caliber teams. IF...IF... CDD is willing and able to go get NBA levels of talent... there's no reason he won't be able to field teams capable of winning it all.
Now... will IU ever mid 70s to early 90s dominant again? That's a completely different question...and one I'd have a lot more pessimism towards.