@arioznahoosier4554 Michigan doesn't have a good chance to win a Natty this year? Hmmm..
@jackskip23 Neither did Hurley or Golden, until they did. You very well could end up being right. I don't like some of the inconsistencies we're seeing with this team right now...that have much less to do with talent, than just focus and resolve.
But... he's widely regarded as a tireless worker. And many that have worked with him say he's one of the smartest basketball minds they've worked with. If he's open, and then able, to bring in NBA levels of guys, those traits he has shown, combined with IU's resources... there's no reason he couldn't win big at IU.
Lots of coaches are hard workers and smart. Many have occasional Cinderella teams or above average sustained success. The ones who win at the highest levels all seem to have something else though: a commanding personality. They impose their will almost by their presence alone. RMK had that. Cig has that, you knew it in his first press conference. Miller did not. Woodson did not. Do you see that in DeVries, or think that is essential?
@dbmhoosier For certain... not sure on what the number ends up being... doesn't matter... he just needs to be willing and capable of landing multiple NBA level players. Florida's natty team, technically, wasn't overly expensive relative to the rest of the contending teams. Golden found a great mix of under the radar portal guys and HS guys, they all developed quickly...but there were multiple NBA guys on that roster when it was all said and done. If you look at this years IU team, I don't really see that potential. Sisley maybe someday? But the rest are really good college players, they've proven that already. But not NBA caliber, I don't suspect. But if Sisley does develop towards that level, and maybe one of Moody or Karvala ends up becoming that level... and he finds a couple in the portal this upcoming spring... he can get things headed in that direction is all I'm saying.
But obviously there are serious question marks on his willingness and ability to ID, attract, land those types of players. That will be a central key in whether or not he puts together any teams capable of adding banner number 6. To say definitively he won't... ehhh... too much of a defeatist mentality, for me.
@ams66 I think DeVries, personality wise, coaching history wise, is pretty similar to Todd Golden...at similar points in their careers. Not sure if that answers your question or not. He's not, at all, similar to Hurley. He's not, at all, like RMK. He might end up being more like a Roy Williams type if he does end up winning big, consistently.
@gerdis I do think its dumb to say they'll never win one again... yes. 39 years is a really, really long time. And I'm not saying CDD is going to win one any time soon. All I'm making the case for... a good coach + IU's resources = a program that can win a natty. Since we won in 87, we had numerous teams that could have won it...like the types of teams I'm referring to, that CDD could build the team back to in a few years. Cheaney's teams had a couple chances...very well could have won it if not for Henderson's knee injury. The Bailey, Henderson, Evans team had the juice to do it, right after the Cheaney teams. Mike Davis was 8 minutes away from doing it, for Pete's sake. Sampson had arguably the best team in the nation in his 2nd year, and would have contended for it if it all hadn't imploded. Crean had one of the best teams in the nation Jordy's senior year, and had a team that could have won it. What has happened since then... is maybe what's giving some the feeling of hopelessness? Not moving on Crean maybe as quickly as we should have, and then 2 really poor coaches.
CDD should be a better choice than the previous 2... And basically every coach in IU's history, back to McCracken, has been able to build at least 1 or 2 championship caliber teams. IF...IF... CDD is willing and able to go get NBA levels of talent... there's no reason he won't be able to field teams capable of winning it all.
Now... will IU ever mid 70s to early 90s dominant again? That's a completely different question...and one I'd have a lot more pessimism towards.
I think it’s all terminology. Championship caliber team? How many big ten teams over the last 25 years has been championship caliber? Sure, IU went to a title game, and had another #1 seed during the last 25 yrs. But, how many other B10 teams can say the same? Isn’t any team with a top 1 seed championship caliber?
in one post you say there are only 10-12 national championship contending programs (and of course we are one of those). In another post you say PU is a November team that will never compete for a NC. It just comes across as blah, blah blah.
sure, we had championship caliber teams. So has half of the big ten over the last 25 years.
The B18g Ten should review the officiating with eye to figuring out why the league doesn't win like it should against the other leagues.
Figure out what is the most common style of officiating that goes on in the tournament, and do it that way. If we aren't already on the same page.
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@gerdis Maybe its terminology? Its simple in my mind though. A good coach, that uses IU's resources, will have a chance, at IU, to win a Natty. I think IU is one of 10-15 programs that does have that capacity.
I think CDD has shown, and most that have worked with him or evaluated him fully would say, that he's a "good coach". Remains to be seen if he can or will use IU's resources to their fullest.
@jackskip23 Neither did Hurley or Golden, until they did. You very well could end up being right. I don't like some of the inconsistencies we're seeing with this team right now...that have much less to do with talent, than just focus and resolve.
But... he's widely regarded as a tireless worker. And many that have worked with him say he's one of the smartest basketball minds they've worked with. If he's open, and then able, to bring in NBA levels of guys, those traits he has shown, combined with IU's resources... there's no reason he couldn't win big at IU.
I do think Hurley and Golden were essentially considered to be of a higher caliber that DD when at a similar spot in their careers, just as Knight was (and Donovan, Calipari and a couple of others). Not saying DeVries can’t get there and I appreciate the work ethic, but I’m not sure he sits today where guys like Golden and Hurley did at similar points in their careers. I think we’re probably a year or two away from really knowing where we are but, having seen all three of Knight’s championship teams closely, as well as the ones that could’ve been there, I don’t yet see the breadcrumbs that were on the ground in the run up to those teams.
@gerdis Maybe its terminology? Its simple in my mind though. A good coach, that uses IU's resources, will have a chance, at IU, to win a Natty. I think IU is one of 10-15 programs that does have that capacity.
I think CDD has shown, and most that have worked with him or evaluated him fully would say, that he's a "good coach". Remains to be seen if he can or will use IU's resources to their fullest.
I think the list of who can win a national championship is far larger than 10-15 teams. It’s essentially any P4 school plus a handful of others who are committed to program building in the current college model. What used to make us “special” has faded in that it’s far less unique than it used to be, in my opinion.
@gerdis Maybe its terminology? Its simple in my mind though. A good coach, that uses IU's resources, will have a chance, at IU, to win a Natty. I think IU is one of 10-15 programs that does have that capacity.
I think CDD has shown, and most that have worked with him or evaluated him fully would say, that he's a "good coach". Remains to be seen if he can or will use IU's resources to their fullest.
I would agree with that. I see IU as being top 10 spend. They will have teams that will have a chance to win it all. Doing it is another matter. Look at the Cheaney years. Awesome, awesome team - but they didn’t do it. Then, look at the Davis team that went to the final game. Not even a top 25 team going into the last week of the season. So, getting close isn’t just about being “championship caliber” there are all kinds of obvious factors like injuries, luck, draw, etc.
so, I think, sure IU will have teams that get top 1-2 seeds. Still, how many 1-2 seeds have there been in the B10 over the last 25 years: IIRC PU, MSU, IU, OSU, MI, Iowa (?), IL WIS?
@openwheel should have been done a long time ago, yet we keep seeing the same sluggish rough and tumble conference seasons every year. It always seemed to me like the B1G valued getting as many teams into the tournament overall VS having a few elite ones contending for a title every year. Hence, allowing teams to mug at home and pull off upsets.
I posted an analysis on the old board a few years ago around this and it showed the B1G called the least amount of fouls compared to the other power conferences with the implication being that grabbing and mugging was allowed at a much higher rate so its not even just about the raw numbers of fouls called but the disproportionate amount of non calls (that teams take advantage of by fouling without repercussion).
@openwheel should have been done a long time ago, yet we keep seeing the same sluggish rough and tumble conference seasons every year. It always seemed to me like the B1G valued getting as many teams into the tournament overall VS having a few elite ones contending for a title every year. Hence, allowing teams to mug at home and pull off upsets.
I posted an analysis on the old board a few years ago around this and it showed the B1G called the least amount of fouls compared to the other power conferences with the implication being that grabbing and mugging was allowed at a much higher rate so its not even just about the raw numbers of fouls called but the disproportionate amount of non calls (that teams take advantage of by fouling without repercussion).
Historically, that Big Ten style goes back decades, with Knight’s emphasis on stifling defense as a turning point for much of the conference in terms of style, as well as how the game was officiated. When we were really coming into our own in the early Knight years, another Big Ten coach lamented that refs were struggling to call the games fairly because our aggressive defense meant all five IU guys were fouling at the same time, in his view. He acknowledged that their dilemma was either to meet that new reality or continue to hope that the officials would call the game more closely. We all know how that turned out.
@jackskip23 Obviously lots of new dynamics at play. My best guess at all this, and they're just guesses obviously... is that NIL, Portal, etc... will largely level the playing field with who can be a good, high level, Sweet 16 level team and program. But the best of the best are still the most likely to win Natty's. BYU, Texas Tech, Auburn, they're challenging that lately... we'll see if any of them break through and hang the banner. But until it starts happening, I'd still put my money on the usual suspects to win it all, in the end.
@jackskip23 Ehhhh, not sure I agree with that. The Hurley hire was scrutinized, at the time, because his career was uneven coming in to UConn. And then it was heavily scrutinized after his first couple teams. Many would say his program might not have ever turned had he not hired Luke Murray. And then Golden...no... he didn't compete for conference titles at San Fran. And his first couple years at Florida weren't great. I wouldn't say either of them were regarded any more highly than CDD was.
@jackskip23 Ehhhh, not sure I agree with that. The Hurley hire was scrutinized, at the time, because his career was uneven coming in to UConn. And then it was heavily scrutinized after his first couple teams. Many would say his program might not have ever turned had he not hired Luke Murray. And then Golden...no... he didn't compete for conference titles at San Fran. And his first couple years at Florida weren't great. I wouldn't say either of them were regarded any more highly than CDD was.
I meant highly regarded in the coaching and basketball world. Both got high marks in that community, while guys like Archie were more media darlings than favorites of the basketball crowd. All good stuff and I hope you’re right about our opportunities in the near future.