I’m of the opinion that he’s been playing hurt since at least game 3 and the same things we’ve lauded our last two QB’s for: Leadership, Toughness, doing whatever it takes at risk of life and limb for the W, and just plain Winning…, he seemingly gets little (or at least a lot less) credit for…
I think we All need to take a deep breath and cut this guy some slack and recognize the Fact that he’s given all he has, laid his body on the line when he was already hurt and been either a big part of or The reason we’ve won 7 out the 8 games we currently have in the plus column…
One thing to keep in mind: had that Win up at Michigan where Hoover won the game in Overtime by trucking the Michigan Safety and giving up his body (that was Already injured) for The Win (our first Win up there in 57 years!!!) occurred any other time then right after an Undefeated Season that play would have immediately been recognized as one of the Greatest Plays in INDIANA Football history…
Instead…, due to his having had a tough passing day due to injury, he gets almost no acknowledgement for his incredible goal line effort and only darts for his lack of perfection in the passing percentage column…
So instead of ripping the guy, in my opinion, we all ought to appreciate his toughness in just going out there while injured and Leading the Team to 7 (nearly more) of our 8 Wins…
It's a bit of a shame really, but I reckon it's an unfortunate culmination of both where the game is in the NIL/Portal era combined with the expectations that come with winning. When you bring in a transfer QB every year with only a year of eligibility, he has a steep learning curve and realistically needs to be plug and play. I would want to give him a bit of grace, but circumstances could dictate the change. I think the kid has been hurt at least since going into the blue tent vs OSU, could've been earlier in the season, and while the brain farts throughout the season have been frustrating overall I think he's acquitted himself well.
Of course I want the QB that gives us the best chance to win out there, but I am pulling for the kid.
A good friend will bail you out of jail, but your best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying "that was f***ing awesome"
@76-1 agree with the sentiment, overall. He is a tough dude, or seems to be. And playing through a throwing arm injury, can't be easy. But he's been missing easy reads and throws since game 1. I don't really care enough to go back and watch his TCU game film, but I suspect its something he's pretty much always done, and that's why he threw so many picks down there. But that Cig and Shanahan were high on him because 1)he ran a similar RPO style at TCU 2)He has immense arm talent 3)They thought with IU's defense, structure, guidance, he'd thrive.
Obviously he'd have been better in B10 play, if not for the injury issues. But I think its revisionist history to not mention the missed throws and reads he had in his easier OOC games. He was seemingly healthy against NW and Nebraska, and outside a handful of good throws, he was fairly pedestrian in those games. And our offense sure was average.
Having said ALL this, despite saying all of the above, actually... I hope he gets fully healthy these next couple weeks. I suspect a fully healthy Hoover, is still our best chance as winning a Natty. Wilson threw some dimes in his time on Saturday, to be sure. But his history says he isn't a particularly high level passer, or overall quarterback. And for whatever reason, Cig thought a hobbled Hoover, was a better choice these last few weeks, despite the team struggling mightily offensively.
@76-1 agree with the sentiment, overall. He is a tough dude, or seems to be. And playing through a throwing arm injury, can't be easy. But he's been missing easy reads and throws since game 1. I don't really care enough to go back and watch his TCU game film, but I suspect its something he's pretty much always done, and that's why he threw so many picks down there. But that Cig and Shanahan were high on him because 1)he ran a similar RPO style at TCU 2)He has immense arm talent 3)They thought with IU's defense, structure, guidance, he'd thrive.
Obviously he'd have been better in B10 play, if not for the injury issues. But I think its revisionist history to not mention the missed throws and reads he had in his easier OOC games. He was seemingly healthy against NW and Nebraska, and outside a handful of good throws, he was fairly pedestrian in those games. And our offense sure was average.
Having said ALL this, despite saying all of the above, actually... I hope he gets fully healthy these next couple weeks. I suspect a fully healthy Hoover, is still our best chance as winning a Natty. Wilson threw some dimes in his time on Saturday, to be sure. But his history says he isn't a particularly high level passer, or overall quarterback. And for whatever reason, Cig thought a hobbled Hoover, was a better choice these last few weeks, despite the team struggling mightily offensively.
I hear you on much of your post but, despite the misfires, I think "pedestrian" is a little harsh. He has been (and still is) Top 15 in QBR, and he has stepped up with some big throws in the 4th quarter.
This brings me to a related issue, and I'm throwing this out to anyone who might be reading this. The protocol on college sports boards. at least in my experience, is that people should refrain from coming down too hard on the student-athletes. The rationale is that they're just college kids doing their best. Do you think that's changed (or should change) now that many of these guys (particularly transfer QBs) are essentially hired guns raking in millions for a single college football season? Are they now fair game for blunt criticism?
To be clear, I'm pulling for Hoover and everyone else who wears the IU uniform.
Finally, and I alluded to this in another thread, I wouldn't be shocked if we learn, following the season, that he played through injury(ies) for most/all of the season.
I am of the mindset Hoovers performance is purely a reflection of an injury. I'm sorry, you don't come into the season having the nation's most passing yards and then forget how to throw the ball once you have a better OL, running game and 2 NFL WR's. It's not system or knowledge related as he ran the RPO at TCU. Early on he was getting comfortable with his receivers, but he was still playing well.
This to me seems like a guy who has an arm injury (I assume shoulder) that impacts his accuracy and power.....two massively important things a QB needs. He may have it for short stints in non-contact practice and feel like he can tough it out but then in-game, it's falling off fast. I do not believe for one second that he is a bad QB, I think he's simply incapable of throwing the ball or taking hits, like he can when he's healthy. That then impacts the rest of his awareness and play on the field. This is why we need to just give the ball to Grant and Hoover needs to do whatever it is that solves his injury. Be it rest or surgery.
When you are the guy who replaces the QB that won a Heisman and a Natty, you are going to have a hard time living up to fan expectations. I have been a little surprised by Hoover missing on some fairly easy throws even before the injury. It's clear he isn't healthy and I do think the lack of a solid 3rd receiver doesn't help him. I do think Wilson put a few more balls in danger of being picked when he came in. That could just be some rust from not playing. Here is what I do know. I am not in practice every day, nor do I know what the coaches know and see. What I do know is Cig has only lost 3 games in three years to this point and one of those was by a mere couple of inches. If Hoover is starting against USC then there is a reason and I trust the coaches on what they decide.
I posited after wk 1 or 2 that Hoover had a sore or tired arm. Might have been worse than those things and just needing to rest it in hindsight.
Thinking the banged up shoulder during Ohio St. game is compounding the entire throwing and arm problem with him.
We have 7 games to win over the next 3 months, so got that going for us in regards to getting Hoover healthy.
Anybody know when Josh began wearing that arm compression sleeve this season or has he always worn it?
Not sure he wore it ALL OF THE TIME at TCU, but I've seen multiple photos of him wearing it while wearing purple (and not bc he was drenched)I posited after wk 1 or 2 that Hoover had a sore or tired arm. Might have been worse than those things and just needing to rest it in hindsight.
Thinking the banged up shoulder during Ohio St. game is compounding the entire throwing and arm problem with him.
We have 7 games to win over the next 3 months, so got that going for us in regards to getting Hoover healthy.
Anybody know when Josh began wearing that arm compression sleeve this season or has he always worn it?
And for whatever reason, Cig thought a hobbled Hoover, was a better choice these last few weeks, despite the team struggling mightily offensively.
Again, I respect the folly of someone like me questioning Cignetti, but I really thought it would've been smart to rest Hoover for MN to give him 3 weeks to get healthy. I'd have presented it as "You're not being benched for performance, but to get you healthy, because we're going to need that in the postseason. Be ready, because we might bring you in, if Wilson struggles vs MN." Not bringing Wilson in at UM is understandable, but I thought with a week of prep and adding his running, with the element of surprise, we were probably in better shape than an ailing Hoover. As it is, we may have gotten Hoover even more injured, and possibly damaged his confidence and still had to play Wilson, who I think showed he would've been better in the first half.
@kkott The whole game was just really, really odd. I agree with what you said about resting him. But then they not only played him, but the VERY FIRST PLAY, they ran a designed QB run, to the left side of the field, exposing his right arm to tacklers. And sure enough, he very visibly got banged up on that first play. Digging deep in to the over analysis bag... that tells me the staff probably didn't think that injury was all that bad, and felt like Hoover needed to get it hit, to give him confidence that his arm would be fine. I just can't square running THAT play, if you're worried about Hoover's arm getting hurt more.
When you are the guy who replaces the QB that won a Heisman and a Natty, you are going to have a hard time living up to fan expectations. I have been a little surprised by Hoover missing on some fairly easy throws even before the injury. It's clear he isn't healthy and I do think the lack of a solid 3rd receiver doesn't help him. I do think Wilson put a few more balls in danger of being picked when he came in. That could just be some rust from not playing. Here is what I do know. I am not in practice every day, nor do I know what the coaches know and see. What I do know is Cig has only lost 3 games in three years to this point and one of those was by a mere couple of inches. If Hoover is starting against USC then there is a reason and I trust the coaches on what they decide.
I don't think people are being unreasonable or comparing him directly to Mendoza. The guy threw one pass in the 2nd half of UM and it was an INT. IU fans are comparing him to Grant Wilson at this point. It's also wild to think he needs a 3rd receiver when he has 2 of the top 5 receivers in the country. Those guys are also getting open, and he is throwing towards them.....just not to them. This is clearly an injury issue, and Cig has felt Hoover could do enough for the last couple of weeks to at least keep teams concerned about the pass while we focused on the run, but the wheels fell off in the 2nd half of UM. It was clear he was not himself, so UM came after him hardcore. Minnesota followed the same blueprint and forced Cigs hand to make the move.
We're loaded on offense. QB has the been the only major problem. Third receiver? Shazz? Morris? Very good and experienced receivers. TEs (Schott) showing skills too. A receiver misses one catch and maybe they get the pine, but the QB misses them when open twice as often. Not saying QB is easy, obviously isn't when great defenses are game planning you.
Our coaches need to develop and pay enough to carry into the season some depth at QB. It's not right for us to be playing injured guys and risking more injury. If they brag about being QB whisperers, and they do, it means Grant Wilson is ready to play while Hoover heals.
And if it's not injury, well... Don't know what to say, because the play has been poor. Tough kid or not. Maybe it's a Shanahan problem. But Shanahan has opened the play book and created some open guys more recently, without any end result.
If Hoover is near 100% then he plays against USC. If he's 75% (and that's 'at best' what we've been getting) then Grant.
Triple DITTO!!!
That and the powerful coaching to not risk turnovers always foremost in his mind. He mentally maybe is a little too much on the edge.