@goat to be fair I have been saying for years the left is irredeemable. I use to be a liberal and saw it coming sooner than others. Hopefully, this is a turning point for Democrats.
@bradstevens concur. Vote for what’s best in your heart and head. Language once mattered. Decorum. And it still does to a degree. But that’s where goat and others miss the boat. The last five years has revealed who we are as a people. Amplified by media and social media. There are massive numbers of people who view our country and what it should look like very differently. The socialist progressive left is nothing I relate to. But they are steadfast. And if they stop rioting and killing people that’s their prerogative. If more Americans support that so be it. I hate it but that’s the game. We’re watching it play out in our largest city.
but we’re not all the problem. We just don’t want the same things. Language can’t fix that. Nor will compromise. Dbm and bloom will never want the same things.
A good friend will bail you out of jail, but your best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying "that was f***ing awesome"
This thread is fucked. We're fucked. Just like most of the other threads on here. I read a lot of stuff on here with my jaw on the floor. In some ways it is more shocking than social media because even though I don't personally know a single person on this board, there's at least a sense of....something?? Community? Intimacy? Familiarity? So the lack of civility (I'm not 100% innocent, but holy hell!) is just way beyond anything helpful. But like a traffic accident, I just keep staring and can't believe what I'm seeing.
It’s not just us. Just returned from coffee with my good German friend. I commented on something I read about the state of the German economy. My friend, who reads German news every day, took off on a 10 minute discussion about the poor state of German politics, and from there we talked about France and the UK also. Much of their problems are a result of the parliamentary system, but that only is a product of badly fragmented politics. Bottom line, we are not the Lone Ranger here. In fact in many ways we are better off than France, Germany, and the UK.
@co-hoosier wayyyyyy better off. so many of these euro countries are a disaster. immigration etc
Braver Angels. Look it up.I've been trying to gather my thoughts on this, and here they are. I sit here on this forum, being lambasted by conservatives for suggesting that maybe they also need to look at a mirror. I get eviscerated by progressives on the other forum for suggesting that maybe they need to do the same. I am no longer loved on any online forum. I'm fine with that.
But here's what I think, anyway. If you declare you don't think it's worth engaging someone who is a fascist, you are part of the problem. If you don't think it's worth engaging someone who is a woke idiot, you are part of the problem.
If you think the other side is so evil, they are destroying America, you are part of the problem.
If you think your opinions are common sense, while those you disagree with are rank ideology, you are part of the problem.
A poll showed too many Americans were okay with political violence. Guess what? It wasn't just one side. 12% of liberals and 28% of conservatives agreed violence was sometimes justified. You are all part of the problem.
Now, I don't think we are all equal. And I don't think you have to agree that the other side is the same as you. We all have our own foibles. We all have faults. And those faults aren't always identical.
But America has reached a point where peaceful dialogue between left and right is becoming harder to find, harder to accept, and harder to imagine continuing into the future. And you are all to blame for that.
Consider the hot button trans topic. We have one side who thinks that all trans women are women in all ways, period, and it's hate speech to suggest otherwise. We have another side who thinks all trans women are mentally deficient predators who are coming after your children, and it's idiocy to suggest otherwise.
What about the idea that maybe, just maybe, we should support the right of all people to live their best lives and explore and express their own identity? Maybe it's okay for a trans woman to say, "I identify as a woman" while it's also okay for a cis woman to say, "I don't identify with them, and I don't want them playing my sports and entering my locker room?"
Where did this possibility disappear? Because all I see are lunatics on both sides boiling everything down to the worst possible essentials.
I think the left has serious problems. I think the right has serious problems. I'd like someone - anyone - to have the balls to stand up and say, "We have a problem, and you know what? It's an American problem, and we're all in on it, and it will take all of us to fix it."
I would follow that person. I would vote for that person, regardless of party.
I don't see that person arising anytime soon.
Workshops are fine, but people follow leaders, so we need our leaders to step up and spread the right message.
Nah. It's simple. The patience of the right has worn out, and Kirk's assassination was the Turning Point.
https://twitter.com/JamieKennedy/status/1967333308536345063
Why can't you be a leader?Braver Angels. Look it up.I've been trying to gather my thoughts on this, and here they are. I sit here on this forum, being lambasted by conservatives for suggesting that maybe they also need to look at a mirror. I get eviscerated by progressives on the other forum for suggesting that maybe they need to do the same. I am no longer loved on any online forum. I'm fine with that.
But here's what I think, anyway. If you declare you don't think it's worth engaging someone who is a fascist, you are part of the problem. If you don't think it's worth engaging someone who is a woke idiot, you are part of the problem.
If you think the other side is so evil, they are destroying America, you are part of the problem.
If you think your opinions are common sense, while those you disagree with are rank ideology, you are part of the problem.
A poll showed too many Americans were okay with political violence. Guess what? It wasn't just one side. 12% of liberals and 28% of conservatives agreed violence was sometimes justified. You are all part of the problem.
Now, I don't think we are all equal. And I don't think you have to agree that the other side is the same as you. We all have our own foibles. We all have faults. And those faults aren't always identical.
But America has reached a point where peaceful dialogue between left and right is becoming harder to find, harder to accept, and harder to imagine continuing into the future. And you are all to blame for that.
Consider the hot button trans topic. We have one side who thinks that all trans women are women in all ways, period, and it's hate speech to suggest otherwise. We have another side who thinks all trans women are mentally deficient predators who are coming after your children, and it's idiocy to suggest otherwise.
What about the idea that maybe, just maybe, we should support the right of all people to live their best lives and explore and express their own identity? Maybe it's okay for a trans woman to say, "I identify as a woman" while it's also okay for a cis woman to say, "I don't identify with them, and I don't want them playing my sports and entering my locker room?"
Where did this possibility disappear? Because all I see are lunatics on both sides boiling everything down to the worst possible essentials.
I think the left has serious problems. I think the right has serious problems. I'd like someone - anyone - to have the balls to stand up and say, "We have a problem, and you know what? It's an American problem, and we're all in on it, and it will take all of us to fix it."
I would follow that person. I would vote for that person, regardless of party.
I don't see that person arising anytime soon.
Workshops are fine, but people follow leaders, so we need our leaders to step up and spread the right message.
That thing with the animal down in Belize in '99. Good times but have you ever wondered why he's called Goat?Why can't you be a leader?Braver Angels. Look it up.I've been trying to gather my thoughts on this, and here they are. I sit here on this forum, being lambasted by conservatives for suggesting that maybe they also need to look at a mirror. I get eviscerated by progressives on the other forum for suggesting that maybe they need to do the same. I am no longer loved on any online forum. I'm fine with that.
But here's what I think, anyway. If you declare you don't think it's worth engaging someone who is a fascist, you are part of the problem. If you don't think it's worth engaging someone who is a woke idiot, you are part of the problem.
If you think the other side is so evil, they are destroying America, you are part of the problem.
If you think your opinions are common sense, while those you disagree with are rank ideology, you are part of the problem.
A poll showed too many Americans were okay with political violence. Guess what? It wasn't just one side. 12% of liberals and 28% of conservatives agreed violence was sometimes justified. You are all part of the problem.
Now, I don't think we are all equal. And I don't think you have to agree that the other side is the same as you. We all have our own foibles. We all have faults. And those faults aren't always identical.
But America has reached a point where peaceful dialogue between left and right is becoming harder to find, harder to accept, and harder to imagine continuing into the future. And you are all to blame for that.
Consider the hot button trans topic. We have one side who thinks that all trans women are women in all ways, period, and it's hate speech to suggest otherwise. We have another side who thinks all trans women are mentally deficient predators who are coming after your children, and it's idiocy to suggest otherwise.
What about the idea that maybe, just maybe, we should support the right of all people to live their best lives and explore and express their own identity? Maybe it's okay for a trans woman to say, "I identify as a woman" while it's also okay for a cis woman to say, "I don't identify with them, and I don't want them playing my sports and entering my locker room?"
Where did this possibility disappear? Because all I see are lunatics on both sides boiling everything down to the worst possible essentials.
I think the left has serious problems. I think the right has serious problems. I'd like someone - anyone - to have the balls to stand up and say, "We have a problem, and you know what? It's an American problem, and we're all in on it, and it will take all of us to fix it."
I would follow that person. I would vote for that person, regardless of party.
I don't see that person arising anytime soon.
Workshops are fine, but people follow leaders, so we need our leaders to step up and spread the right message.
[
Why can't you be a leader?
@bradstevens Do you read this thread/board and see people who want to be lead?
It still amazes me how people can only think in terms of one vector at a time.Nah. It's simple. The patience of the right has worn out, and Kirk's assassination was the Turning Point.
With Kirk, you can think he was a good family man, followed the law, etc. and still recognize you don't agree with many, if any, of his political opinions so would never join his political movement.
And on the other end, you can accept that Kirk's opinions were kinda wacky on some of this stuff, and realize that his murder is a terrible tragedy and that we should be ostracizing any morons who are online/in public celebrating his death.
That thing with the animal down in Belize in ’99. Good times but have you ever wondered why he’s called Goat?
I just assumed he was the front man for the band G.O.A.T. and your Mom...
**BTW** NSFW
A good friend will bail you out of jail, but your best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying "that was f***ing awesome"