Posted by: @unclemark

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@bradstevens 

AI Overview

 

Historians generally agree Ulysses S. Grant had a significant, often problematic relationship with alcohol, likely struggling with alcoholism, marked by binges and periods of abstinence, but crucially, he was a functioning alcoholic who rarely let it impair major decisions during the Civil War, despite rumors and smear campaigns (especially from rivals). The consensus recognizes his struggle but downplays the idea he was perpetually drunk or incompetent; he often quit for long stretches and never let it derail critical command decisions. 

 

Key Points of Consensus:

 

• Yes, He Drank Heavily: Grant enjoyed whiskey and had documented episodes of heavy drinking, including an infamous binge before the Vicksburg campaign.
• Functioning Alcoholic: He was a "functioning alcoholic," meaning he could drink to excess but also stop for long periods and remain effective, a key factor in his military success, as noted by Hayes Historical Journal.
• Rarely Impaired Key Decisions: While rumors circulated, evidence suggests he didn't make major military or political decisions while drunk; he often refused alcohol when duty called, notes HistoryNet and National Museum of Civil War Medicine.
• Smear Campaigns Exaggerated It: Political enemies and "Lost Cause" Southerners magnified his drinking issues through rumors and propaganda, creating a lasting myth, explains History is Now Magazine.
• Struggle & Mastery: Many agree he struggled with alcohol, but also, as Shortform mentions, achieved mastery over it by the end of his life, a significant personal victory, says HistoryNet. 

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In short, historians see Grant as a complex figure who battled alcoholism but whose immense success was not defined by it, challenging the caricature of a perpetually drunk general, according to The Washington Post. 

Posted by: @bradstevens

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So do you see how that summary contradicts what you previously wrote? No one has argued that Grant wasn't an effective or successful general.  

You overemphasized his drinking with your "Grant was probably drunk" while I underestimated the extent of his drinking in later life. The summary does back me up on the notion that Grant being a habitual drunkard came largely from the Lost Cause historians. 

Or I could go all COH on you and claim that's not the point I was making or some other bullshit.

Peace.

Posted by: @unclemark

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Posted by: @bradstevens

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So do you see how that summary contradicts what you previously wrote? No one has argued that Grant wasn't an effective or successful general.  

You overemphasized his drinking with your "Grant was probably drunk" while I underestimated the extent of his drinking in later life. The summary does back me up on the notion that Grant being a habitual drunkard came largely from the Lost Cause historians. 

Or I could go all COH on you and claim that's not the point I was making or some other bullshit.

Peace.

 

https://twitter.com/wallstreetapes/status/2003830734683877840?s=61&t=1KiTJ7EYgX-uQgf4Wkb9sg