do you lock your doors when you’re not home
If there had been a grand total of 70 house break-ins over the past 100 years in all of the USA, I might well skip it. So your comparison is silly. Do you wear a hard hat all of the time while outside to prevent being hit by falling ammunition, or by meteors / space junk?
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
When polls say 80% of the citizens want something the government should probably listen to its citizens and enact it.
80% of the people agree with the concept of using a voter ID system. That doesn't mean that one particular bill, for one flawed approach, has anywhere near that level of support. But you knew that.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Once again, Republicans wasting time and money on something that is NOT a problem, but they get their Fox listening minions to believe there is. No matter who studies and looks for voter fraud, it’s a very rare occurrence.
Zeke I'm going to have to disagree on this one. When polls say 80% of the citizens want something the government should probably listen to its citizens and enact it. I think it's sort of the point of Democracy.
Meh, the entire premise of this thread is flawed. Yes, Americans mostly support Voter ID laws, and for the most part, they have them. The number of states without a voter ID law is short and always getting shorter. No one is repealing them. But the SAVE Act isn't just a voter ID law, it's much more than that, and being opposed to it does not mean one is opposed to voter ID.
Like @twenty said above, my main problem with the Act is that it's a massive federal overreach, and probably unconstitutional. And it's not just because of federalism concerns. It would actually be unconstitutional for the federal government to blanket ban all noncitizens from voting. Some states allow noncitizens to vote in local elections. The feds aren't allowed to stop that. And even though no state currently does it, any state who wanted to could allow noncitizens to vote for state legislators, too, and if they did that, not only could the federal government not prevent it, those noncitizens would automatically become eligible to vote in both House (Article 1) and Senate (17th Amendment) elections, as well. (Per Article 2, states can also choose to allow noncitizens to vote for President if they want, too).
Pretty simple. Almost everyone wants a voter ID system, but the GOP plan to limit acceptable ID to birth certificates and passports will make it harder for many people to comply and result in lower voter participation by large numbers of legal US citizens.
Put together a system with free ID that doesn't systematically make it difficult to vote (examples: persons in nursing homes, persons who are homeless, person too poor to pay any fees to secure needed ID) and it will have bipartisan support, even though the rate of people voting illegally is probably a lot lower than the rate of felony convictions by US Presidents.
Florida requires photo ID and I support that. But FL accepts a "real ID" Florida driver's license, and if you don't have a driver's license they have a list of acceptable alternatives. All states doing that would be a great plan.
How does one prove citizenship and a right to vote with a Real ID? I don't believe they do.
Because to get your real ID, you had to provide the following
- Proof of Identity and Lawful Status (1 Document):
- Valid U.S. Passport or Passport Card.
- Original/Certified U.S. Birth Certificate.
- Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship.
- Permanent Resident Card.
- Foreign Passport with valid U.S. Visa and I-94 form.
- Proof of Social Security Number (1 Document):
- Social Security Card.
- W-2 form or 1099 form.
- Pay stub with name and SSN.
- Proof of Residency (2 Documents):
- Documents must show your name and current residential address (P.O. Boxes are generally not accepted).
- Examples: Utility bill, bank statement, mortgage statement, or lease agreement.
- Name Change Documents:
- If your name on your identity documents differs from your current name, you must provide legal proof of the name change (e.g., marriage certificate, divorce decree, or court order).
The only reason to not allow a real ID driver's license for voting is because the goal is really voter suppression.
im fine with that tbh, but pointing out that it isn’t legally recognized (as of now) as valid proof of citizenship
Pretty simple. Almost everyone wants a voter ID system, but the GOP plan to limit acceptable ID to birth certificates and passports will make it harder for many people to comply and result in lower voter participation by large numbers of legal US citizens.
Put together a system with free ID that doesn't systematically make it difficult to vote (examples: persons in nursing homes, persons who are homeless, person too poor to pay any fees to secure needed ID) and it will have bipartisan support, even though the rate of people voting illegally is probably a lot lower than the rate of felony convictions by US Presidents.
Florida requires photo ID and I support that. But FL accepts a "real ID" Florida driver's license, and if you don't have a driver's license they have a list of acceptable alternatives. All states doing that would be a great plan.
How does one prove citizenship and a right to vote with a Real ID? I don't believe they do.
Because to get your real ID, you had to provide the following
- Proof of Identity and Lawful Status (1 Document):
- Valid U.S. Passport or Passport Card.
- Original/Certified U.S. Birth Certificate.
- Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship.
- Permanent Resident Card.
- Foreign Passport with valid U.S. Visa and I-94 form.
- Proof of Social Security Number (1 Document):
- Social Security Card.
- W-2 form or 1099 form.
- Pay stub with name and SSN.
- Proof of Residency (2 Documents):
- Documents must show your name and current residential address (P.O. Boxes are generally not accepted).
- Examples: Utility bill, bank statement, mortgage statement, or lease agreement.
- Name Change Documents:
- If your name on your identity documents differs from your current name, you must provide legal proof of the name change (e.g., marriage certificate, divorce decree, or court order).
The only reason to not allow a real ID driver's license for voting is because the goal is really voter suppression.
im fine with that tbh, but pointing out that it isn’t legally recognized (as of now) as valid proof of citizenship
Green card holders (Permanent Residents) can get a real ID by showing their green card, showing their SSN, and showing any of the example docs that prove residency.
Can green card holders legally vote? No, they cannot.
Hope is not optimism, which expects things to turn out well, but something rooted in the conviction that there is good worth working for. - Seamus Heaney, Irish poet and likely Hoosier basketball fan.
POTFB
He’s a snot nosed community college Twitter Twit kid who is making some bucks off the most easily duped among us."BREAKING: In a stunning blow to Democrats, 76% PERCENT of BLACK Americans want nationwide voter ID — in other words, the SAVE America Act." Who is this hyperbolic Eric Daughtery, and why are his comments re-posted in this forum so often? This tweet, at least, reads like full-blown partisan hackery.Certainly can't be because it would be "unfair" to African Americans or Latinos...
If we didn't know better, we would think that he was "Stay(ing) ON your grass".
If men were any more stupid, we would have breed for the extinction of women. Proof yet again that WE are the best thing they have going for them.
Who wouldn't want unidentified, heavily armed, fully masked, barely trained gravy seals stopping you at polling places and demanding that you put your hands up and show them your papers?
People that shouldn’t be voting?
If men were any more stupid, we would have breed for the extinction of women. Proof yet again that WE are the best thing they have going for them.
People that shouldn’t be voting?
And also people that should be voting, but don't want an Alex Pretti experience
If you already knew the answer that you wanted to hear. Why did you ask it to start with?
If men were any more stupid, we would have breed for the extinction of women. Proof yet again that WE are the best thing they have going for them.
@oneeyedundertaker and crazy people afraid of crazy people who are heavily armed.
FIFY I am sure it was a simple typo.
If men were any more stupid, we would have breed for the extinction of women. Proof yet again that WE are the best thing they have going for them.
No police watching for speeders, no security at airports, etc either then, right?
In 1933 the German police and paramilitary stood guard at polling stations. You seem to like that idea, and citizens routinely asked, "papers please".
Did they also stand behind the Beer, Liquor and cigarette store cash registers across America? Did they work at the BMV to be ALLOWED to drive? Did they work as bank tellers, checking that you are you, to deposit a check into YOUR OWN account? You seem to not equate the two. Is it the uniform clothing.... Ahhhh.... How you could be confused by that, makes perfect sense.
If men were any more stupid, we would have breed for the extinction of women. Proof yet again that WE are the best thing they have going for them.
It would probably be easier to amend the REAL ID Act than to pass the SAVE Act. Go ahead and do that and strengthen the citizenship requirement and require noncitizens to be identified on their REAL IDs. I'd bet there'd be a lot less resistance to that and would get tons of support from those of us that support voter ID and preventing noncitizen voting in federal elections. It's not happening at a rate to change elections, but I've always argued that even one illegal vote is one too many.Pretty simple. Almost everyone wants a voter ID system, but the GOP plan to limit acceptable ID to birth certificates and passports will make it harder for many people to comply and result in lower voter participation by large numbers of legal US citizens.
Put together a system with free ID that doesn't systematically make it difficult to vote (examples: persons in nursing homes, persons who are homeless, person too poor to pay any fees to secure needed ID) and it will have bipartisan support, even though the rate of people voting illegally is probably a lot lower than the rate of felony convictions by US Presidents.
Florida requires photo ID and I support that. But FL accepts a "real ID" Florida driver's license, and if you don't have a driver's license they have a list of acceptable alternatives. All states doing that would be a great plan.
How does one prove citizenship and a right to vote with a Real ID? I don't believe they do.
Because to get your real ID, you had to provide the following
- Proof of Identity and Lawful Status (1 Document):
- Valid U.S. Passport or Passport Card.
- Original/Certified U.S. Birth Certificate.
- Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship.
- Permanent Resident Card.
- Foreign Passport with valid U.S. Visa and I-94 form.
- Proof of Social Security Number (1 Document):
- Social Security Card.
- W-2 form or 1099 form.
- Pay stub with name and SSN.
- Proof of Residency (2 Documents):
- Documents must show your name and current residential address (P.O. Boxes are generally not accepted).
- Examples: Utility bill, bank statement, mortgage statement, or lease agreement.
- Name Change Documents:
- If your name on your identity documents differs from your current name, you must provide legal proof of the name change (e.g., marriage certificate, divorce decree, or court order).
The only reason to not allow a real ID driver's license for voting is because the goal is really voter suppression.
im fine with that tbh, but pointing out that it isn’t legally recognized (as of now) as valid proof of citizenship
Once again, Republicans wasting time and money on something that is NOT a problem, but they get their Fox listening minions to believe there is. No matter who studies and looks for voter fraud, it’s a very rare occurrence.
Zeke I'm going to have to disagree on this one. When polls say 80% of the citizens want something the government should probably listen to its citizens and enact it. I think it's sort of the point of Democracy.
Meh, the entire premise of this thread is flawed. Yes, Americans mostly support Voter ID laws, and for the most part, they have them. The number of states without a voter ID law is short and always getting shorter. No one is repealing them. But the SAVE Act isn't just a voter ID law, it's much more than that, and being opposed to it does not mean one is opposed to voter ID.
Like @twenty said above, my main problem with the Act is that it's a massive federal overreach, and probably unconstitutional. And it's not just because of federalism concerns. It would actually be unconstitutional for the federal government to blanket ban all noncitizens from voting. Some states allow noncitizens to vote in local elections. The feds aren't allowed to stop that. And even though no state currently does it, any state who wanted to could allow noncitizens to vote for state legislators, too, and if they did that, not only could the federal government not prevent it, those noncitizens would automatically become eligible to vote in both House (Article 1) and Senate (17th Amendment) elections, as well. (Per Article 2, states can also choose to allow noncitizens to vote for President if they want, too).
If you randomly polled people 75-80% of them would say you should provide a drivers license to be able to vote. The only reason to be against it is because you're cheating or you think it benefits your party more the other to require it.
Once again, Republicans wasting time and money on something that is NOT a problem, but they get their Fox listening minions to believe there is. No matter who studies and looks for voter fraud, it’s a very rare occurrence.
Zeke I'm going to have to disagree on this one. When polls say 80% of the citizens want something the government should probably listen to its citizens and enact it. I think it's sort of the point of Democracy.
Meh, the entire premise of this thread is flawed. Yes, Americans mostly support Voter ID laws, and for the most part, they have them. The number of states without a voter ID law is short and always getting shorter. No one is repealing them. But the SAVE Act isn't just a voter ID law, it's much more than that, and being opposed to it does not mean one is opposed to voter ID.
Like @twenty said above, my main problem with the Act is that it's a massive federal overreach, and probably unconstitutional. And it's not just because of federalism concerns. It would actually be unconstitutional for the federal government to blanket ban all noncitizens from voting. Some states allow noncitizens to vote in local elections. The feds aren't allowed to stop that. And even though no state currently does it, any state who wanted to could allow noncitizens to vote for state legislators, too, and if they did that, not only could the federal government not prevent it, those noncitizens would automatically become eligible to vote in both House (Article 1) and Senate (17th Amendment) elections, as well. (Per Article 2, states can also choose to allow noncitizens to vote for President if they want, too).
If you randomly polled people 75-80% of them would say you should provide a drivers license to be able to vote. The only reason to be against it is because you're cheating or you think it benefits your party more the other to require it.
Sure, and that has exactly zero to do with the bill in question here.
@goat it has everything to do with it. If all states were like Indiana, it wouldn't be issue. However, there are 14 states and DC that don't even require a photo ID, so it is an issue. Of course all those states are blue or lean left.
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