I'm not sure it matters. Law enforcement can ask for an ID any time they want. They can, and do, lie to people. Children, like Shooter, think this only happens under the Trump administration.
Which doesn't change the fact they should not have that right without a cause. I don't know why we believe being free means the police can stop and question us anytime the police like with no reason.
So, mcm666 hasn't answered, so I'll ask you. Did she basically call their bluff and due to the circumstances (camera, etc), they just walked away?I don't think they "stopped" her. They asked to see her ID. She said no. Instead of talking to them, she could have just walked away and it doesn't appear they would have done anything. They were fishing. She didn't bit. Happens all the time in many different circumstances with LE. Remember, too, this would be a different story if they were near the border. Down there (or maybe "up there" in MN), they might be able to do more. I seem to remember us discussing their powers w/r/t border proximity in a different context and 100 miles was a relevant distance.Dont they need reasonable suspicion for a terry stop?
I recognize the SOP exception like TSA or admitting to some venues, but this isn’t that.
Isn't this a totally different scenario than mcm666 is describing, whereas people have to comply with LEO at all times? His description seems sort of un-American.
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Maybe you're just a shitty writer; maybe you don't know how to think in nuanced, non-binary terms, I don't know. But you've once again shown your own ass.What Shooter doesn't seem to grasp, because he is a child crippled by NPD and devoid of the ability to think past "good vs bad," is that this kind of thing has been going on for a long time, under many different administrations, at the fed and state level. LEO's job is to catch bad guys. They sometimes use dishonest tactics to do so.
I grasp it fine. They are allowed to lie, allowed to ask for things they have no right to obtain, have always done ao, and it is also absolutely right for the person to refuse.
What SharoMurt doesn't seem to grasp is that, in fact, sticking up for your own rights is a patriotic act
"Sticking up for your own rights"/invoking them is not a patriotic act in every instance, contrary to what you wrote (you hardly ever qualify things, which is how my child thought--when he was 12). For example, taking the Fifth, to beat a murder rap isn't very patriotic, at all. Swallowing your 1A right to publish news you've received about an imminent attack by American forces is a patriotic act; sticking up for your 1A right and publishing to get the jump on everyone else and risking American lives is selfish, and not patriotic.
So no, I don't think you do grasp it, fine or otherwise. You continue to prove that with every post you write.
@bulk-vh Possibly. And they could have taken her to the back of their car and asked her questions. Trying to extrapolate from one instance which is the nature of so much today isn't of much moment.
sticking up for your own rights is a patriotic act
This is what continues to elude you in your bleating. You are getting the rights wrong. She has no right to deny identification without consequence. If she does there are consequences. She can be detained.
Police can't stop us anytime they like with no reason, legally.I'm not sure it matters. Law enforcement can ask for an ID any time they want. They can, and do, lie to people. Children, like Shooter, think this only happens under the Trump administration.
Which doesn't change the fact they should not have that right without a cause. I don't know why we believe being free means the police can stop and question us anytime the police like with no reason.
Dude...talk about a slip showing. I was just waiting for this phrase.@bulk-vh Possibly. And they could have taken her to the back of their car and asked her questions. Trying to extrapolate from one instance which is the nature of so much today isn't of much moment.
Anyway, sure they can do all that. Doesn't mean she has to comply, which I thought was your point.
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@bulk-vh She does have to comply. One way or another. Show your ID. Or refuse and we'll detain you and find out.
Then why didn't the ICE guys detain her? She called their bluff, and they caved. She did not comply.@bulk-vh She does have to comply. One way or another. Show your ID. Or refuse and we'll detain you and find out.
Of course, they would find out if they detained her and "forced" her. Then, we no longer live in America. Or, she could have remained silent and called a lawyer. I guess they would have figured it out at that point. Kind of a FAFO moment, which I hope they still may face.
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Then, we no longer live in America
I have no idea why ICE didn't detain. It's possible they are lazy fucks and were afraid it'd create paperwork and they wanted to get to lunch/dinner. Who knows. The "No longer live in America" part is where we disagree. Part of living in America is the social contract. The cooperation. The respect. That with the left is breaking down. If every person adopted this lady's behavior we'd need a police force ten times what we have and the local football stadium that binds us together would be just a field. Much of this is going on because the Dems that run Minny are simply derelict in performing their duties. The left has become absolutely worthless with governance.
Is LEO part of the social contract?Then, we no longer live in America
I have no idea why ICE didn't detain. It's possible they are lazy fucks and were afraid it'd create paperwork and they wanted to get to lunch/dinner. Who knows. The "No longer live in America" part is where we disagree. Part of living in America is the social contract. The cooperation. The respect. That with the left is breaking down. If every person adopted this lady's behavior we'd need a police force ten times what we have and the local football stadium that binds us together would be just a field. Much of this is going on because the Dems that run Minny are simply derelict in performing their duties. The left has become absolutely worthless with governance.
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@bulk-vh That's why I believe we're two people on one land. I disagree with many who believe that it's the fringe with the voice but most of us still fundamentally agree. Trump is one end progressives the other. I once thought that was true, that we all largely agree, but I don't anymore, particularly with Mamdani winning NYC and his beliefs. I think AOC, Mamdani, the Squad, Trump/MAGA revealed us. I think half the country believes one thing and the other half the other, unfortunately.
I wonder how all the MAGA militia guys would receive your views in this thread?@bulk-vh That's why I believe we're two people on one land. I disagree with many who believe that it's the fringe with the voice but most of us still fundamentally agree. Trump is one end progressives the other. I once thought that was true, that we all largely agree, but I don't anymore, particularly with Mamdani winning NYC and his beliefs. I think AOC, Mamdani, the Squad, Trump/MAGA revealed us. I think half the country believes one thing and the other half the other, unfortunately.
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