I was listening to Stephen Dubner being interviewed on EconTalk yesterday. It's the 20th anniversary of Freakonomics. It's a really good listen and I recommend it to everyone.
One thing Dubner said that struck true with me is that we are now living in a time we haven't really seen for at least a 100 years: where people are questioning both our economic and political systems. We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath. And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself. I'd also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years. I wonder how much will change on one or both of these fronts over that time.
https://www.econtalk.org/twenty-years-of-freakonomics-with-stephen-dubner/
I was listening to Stephen Dubner being interviewed on EconTalk yesterday.
I assume this is some 80-90 minute podcast?
In all seriousness:
We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath.
How can they not? They watched (as it appeared from the regular guy's POV) the elite destroy the global economy, then get bailed out by the government, while the rest of us got stiffed.
And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself.
There is no free market of ideas. Depending on your political POV, it's either been hijacked by foreign actors, or been subsumed by ivory tower ideology. As a result, democracy can't even be trusted to exist any longer.
I’d also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
As they should be. We pay lip service to it, much in the way we repeat scripts in a church service, but no one on either side any longer believes the structure the Constitution defined is working for them.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years.
I think both "bumpy" and "25" are understatements.
I was listening to Stephen Dubner being interviewed on EconTalk yesterday. It's the 20th anniversary of Freakonomics. It's a really good listen and I recommend it to everyone.
One thing Dubner said that struck true with me is that we are now living in a time we haven't really seen for at least a 100 years: where people are questioning both our economic and political systems. We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath. And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself. I'd also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years. I wonder how much will change on one or both of these fronts over that time.
https://www.econtalk.org/twenty-years-of-freakonomics-with-stephen-dubner/
I'll check it out when I get time. A lot of Bitcoiners and Ray Dalio talk a lot about this stuff. The shelf life of modern day stable currencies and societies seems to be around 80-100 years. I personally think you can only get detached from the real world through debasing currencies for so long before it self corrects. I was listening to someone an awhile back and they talked about major advancement eras where it's like we leap to a faster treadmill (analogy he used) and it staves off upheaval. The hope being AI would be another one.
I was listening to Stephen Dubner being interviewed on EconTalk yesterday. It's the 20th anniversary of Freakonomics. It's a really good listen and I recommend it to everyone.
One thing Dubner said that struck true with me is that we are now living in a time we haven't really seen for at least a 100 years: where people are questioning both our economic and political systems. We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath. And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself. I'd also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years. I wonder how much will change on one or both of these fronts over that time.
https://www.econtalk.org/twenty-years-of-freakonomics-with-stephen-dubner/
Fairly recently I believed a 9/11 type event might be the only way to bring the country together. I no longer believe that, as I’m fairly certain a large percentage of our population, primarily folks from the left, would celebrate such an event. Given your thoughts on the tumultuous times ahead, do you still want the slate to be wiped clean for your kids?
I’m fairly certain a large percentage of our population, primarily folks from the left, would celebrate such an event.
The real problem is that a large percentage of our population, primarily people like you, actually believe that.
I don't understand. Can you elaborate on that question?Given your thoughts on the tumultuous times ahead, do you still want the slate to be wiped clean for your kids?
In all seriousness:
We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath.
How can they not? They watched (as it appeared from the regular guy's POV) the elite destroy the global economy, then get bailed out by the government, while the rest of us got stiffed.
And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself.
There is no free market of ideas. Depending on your political POV, it's either been hijacked by foreign actors, or been subsumed by ivory tower ideology. As a result, democracy can't even be trusted to exist any longer.
I’d also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
As they should be. We pay lip service to it, much in the way we repeat scripts in a church service, but no one on either side any longer believes the structure the Constitution defined is working for them.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years.
I think both "bumpy" and "25" are understatements.
I’m fairly certain a large percentage of our population, primarily folks from the left, would celebrate such an event.
The real problem is that a large percentage of our population, primarily people like you, actually believe that.
Your previous post is exhibit A on the disillusionment & disdain for America as it is, & you’re nowhere near as radical as some of your fellow leftists. For all of the whacko stuff that comes from the right, they are still the group that exhibits nationalism & patriotism. The left just wants to burn it all down, as we’ve seen the past few years. Go to a MAGA rally, you’ll see American flags, go to a No Kings, BLM, Antifa, LGBTQRST, Pro Palestine, etc. etc. rally & you’ll see mor flags of foreign nations than their own. These people have no love of country…
I don't understand. Can you elaborate on that question?Given your thoughts on the tumultuous times ahead, do you still want the slate to be wiped clean for your kids?
IIRC you had previously stated you didn’t think children should get inheritance & everyone should start fresh. I’m thinking now more than ever I want to equip my son as best I can to weather the storm ahead, including financially. If that wasn’t a previously stated position of yours, I apologize.
I was listening to Stephen Dubner being interviewed on EconTalk yesterday. It's the 20th anniversary of Freakonomics. It's a really good listen and I recommend it to everyone.
One thing Dubner said that struck true with me is that we are now living in a time we haven't really seen for at least a 100 years: where people are questioning both our economic and political systems. We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath. And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself. I'd also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years. I wonder how much will change on one or both of these fronts over that time.
https://www.econtalk.org/twenty-years-of-freakonomics-with-stephen-dubner/
I guess I’m not terribly surprised by the disillusionment with capitalism, democracy, the free market of ideas, and even more than that. But I strongly disagree that the assigned reasons. I think we are seeing the results of a couple of generations of bad educations. Many students leave high school unable to read and do simple math at adult levels let alone understand our constitutional system or capitalism. They are easily manipulated.
That was my position and I still believe that.I don't understand. Can you elaborate on that question?Given your thoughts on the tumultuous times ahead, do you still want the slate to be wiped clean for your kids?
IIRC you had previously stated you didn’t think children should get inheritance & everyone should start fresh. I’m thinking now more than ever I want to equip my son as best I can to weather the storm ahead, including financially. If that wasn’t a previously stated position of yours, I apologize.
Someone who agrees with you:In all seriousness:
We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath.
How can they not? They watched (as it appeared from the regular guy's POV) the elite destroy the global economy, then get bailed out by the government, while the rest of us got stiffed.
And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself.
There is no free market of ideas. Depending on your political POV, it's either been hijacked by foreign actors, or been subsumed by ivory tower ideology. As a result, democracy can't even be trusted to exist any longer.
I’d also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
As they should be. We pay lip service to it, much in the way we repeat scripts in a church service, but no one on either side any longer believes the structure the Constitution defined is working for them.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years.
I think both "bumpy" and "25" are understatements.
It's my view that promising people hope and change and then bailing out bank donors as they threw 10 million families out of their homes was the defining political moment that birthed this era & it's my view that liberals/Dems still refusing to reckon with this & discard the politics that led to it is part of why this descent persists.
You can of course disagree. There were plenty of other big moments that brought us to this point. But I don't think my particular opinion on this is so crazy or illogical that it should be laughed at.
In fact, I think when liberals scoff at/downplay/eye roll what happened in that absolutely pivotal 2009-2010 moment, they are proving that somehow even now at the safer distance of history, they still refuse to honestly reckon with the mass social destruction that isn’t merely part of the past - it is still reverberating today.
Worth adding: My overall list of key turning-point events that brought us to this era: Bush v Gore, 9/11, the Iraq War, the financial crisis, and the decision to turn hope and change into more of the same by bailing out banks/shielding execs from prosecution while they threw millions of people out of their homes.
Someone who agrees with you:In all seriousness:
We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath.
How can they not? They watched (as it appeared from the regular guy's POV) the elite destroy the global economy, then get bailed out by the government, while the rest of us got stiffed.
And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself.
There is no free market of ideas. Depending on your political POV, it's either been hijacked by foreign actors, or been subsumed by ivory tower ideology. As a result, democracy can't even be trusted to exist any longer.
I’d also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
As they should be. We pay lip service to it, much in the way we repeat scripts in a church service, but no one on either side any longer believes the structure the Constitution defined is working for them.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years.
I think both "bumpy" and "25" are understatements.
It's my view that promising people hope and change and then bailing out bank donors as they threw 10 million families out of their homes was the defining political moment that birthed this era & it's my view that liberals/Dems still refusing to reckon with this & discard the politics that led to it is part of why this descent persists.
You can of course disagree. There were plenty of other big moments that brought us to this point. But I don't think my particular opinion on this is so crazy or illogical that it should be laughed at.
In fact, I think when liberals scoff at/downplay/eye roll what happened in that absolutely pivotal 2009-2010 moment, they are proving that somehow even now at the safer distance of history, they still refuse to honestly reckon with the mass social destruction that isn’t merely part of the past - it is still reverberating today.
Worth adding: My overall list of key turning-point events that brought us to this era: Bush v Gore, 9/11, the Iraq War, the financial crisis, and the decision to turn hope and change into more of the same by bailing out banks/shielding execs from prosecution while they threw millions of people out of their homes.
I wasn't intending to take it quite that far, but I think it's a compelling argument. I agree it should be looked at in context of all the other things you mentioned. But even as it happened, I remember the response to the bailouts was anchored by exasperation in many corners.
I was listening to Stephen Dubner being interviewed on EconTalk yesterday. It's the 20th anniversary of Freakonomics. It's a really good listen and I recommend it to everyone.
One thing Dubner said that struck true with me is that we are now living in a time we haven't really seen for at least a 100 years: where people are questioning both our economic and political systems. We have people disillusioned with capitalism, spurred most obviously by the 2008 Great Recession and aftermath. And we have people now disillusioned with the liberalism in the classic sense, that truth wins out in a free market exchange of ideas, and the very idea of democracy itself. I'd also argue we have more people disillusioned with the Constitution than ever before.
I think we are in for another bumpy 25 years. I wonder how much will change on one or both of these fronts over that time.
https://www.econtalk.org/twenty-years-of-freakonomics-with-stephen-dubner/
I actually did my homework and listened to it. That's 90 minutes I'll never get back 🤣 As to your people questioning capitalism comment. I think people will fall in line in their preconceived biases. If they're on the left they'll push for more socialism and if their on the right less of it. The best examples being Bitcoin and Obamacare shortly after the GFC. And more recent examples of Mamdani and Gold. Side note, Mamdani winning the New York mayoral race should help AOC. It shifts the Overton window. Anyone to the left of him will become a "moderate".
I was surprised in your follow up post you didn't mentioned Covid as a major event. I think it had more of an impact than all of those you listed by far (I'd add immigration to your list as well). We do agree they should have let the banks fail and the deflationary event happen. The GFC did signal to how we will deal with crises in the future (China held their highest percentage of T-Bills in 2013). By the way in a "free market" you let the banks fail and the deflationary event to happen. Instead they chose to socialize the problem and it's only added to the wealth disparity.
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