One bedrock principle also matters. That’s character and intelligence. If a politician is peddling the lie that the 2020 election was stolen he’s a blatant liar telling a lie that has deeply harmed the country or he’s a fricking moron. You used to care about character too, but you ease your mind now by claiming this lie is harmless. It’s plainly not harmless, just admit it and say it no longer matters to you.
Then there's the attempt to overturn the election by inciting a mob to assault Congress, along with absconding with thousands of state secrets.
A principled person would be repulsed, no matter how much he agreed with Trump's policy positions (such as they are).
True, I neglected to mention the documents case. The "lock her up crowd," which I definitely sympathize with since I spent considerable time explaining how she broke the law with her grossly negligent mishandling of classified information on her private server and should have been prosecuted, was and is egregiously hypocritical with their dismissal and excusing of then former President Trump's deliberate mishandling of highly classified documents that he had no right to have and tried to hide having.
I suppose I could excuse MAGAs here if they admitted their hypocritical positions for "the greater good" or something, but they don't do that. They defend anything and everything President Trump has said or done, even if it means being dishonest and hypocritical.
@aloha-hoosier I literally just said he’s no good. Can you read or are you so myopic everything bounces off? What’s more you continue to ignore the fraud perpetrated by the left, the docs case Biden got off on, etc. as others have said just vote Dem. Your party is dead and gone. No one wanted them. In the current milieu they wouldn’t get 25 mil votes
I didn't see your post until after I posted mine. I actually think you have one of the best, honest and least hypocritical takes on Trump. I don't totally agree with it, but it's really the only somewhat reasonable one on him from Trump supporters.@aloha-hoosier I literally just said he’s no good. Can you read or are you so myopic everything bounces off? What’s more you continue to ignore the fraud perpetrated by the left, the docs case Biden got off on, etc. as others have said just vote Dem. Your party is dead and gone. No one wanted them. In the current milieu they wouldn’t get 25 mil votes
Harris was a terrible candidate but given Trump's current very low approval ratings and Trump fatigue, if they had a do over vote next week, she could win. It wasn't a landslide by any means. It's something we'll never know. I'm just hoping we have two somewhat acceptable candidates in the next election. 2016 to 2024 have been abysmal in that regard.
The entire country has moved way left
I don't think this is true. I think the country has moved right. Or maybe it's just moved populist, with no right/left bias. Some of the top public faces of the Dem party have definitely moved left, but I don't think they represent the country. I don't even think they represent Democrats. Look at a guy like @larsiu - spent most of the last forum as a reliable leftist. And nowadays, he's more likely to say, "Man, fuck these lunatics." I think that's the core of the American "left." The academic/progressive far left is an outlier.
This is why I keep harping on the cost of living. You guys are going to lose badly this fall. But it isn't because America wants Communist Trans Story Hour in every public library. It's because shit is expensive. That's what's been driving elections in the entire West ever since Covid. You keep pushing the Dems to talk about all the woke shit, I guarantee that will close the gap. Because most of America isn't there with them.
NB - slight caveat for the Communist part. People are willing to try just about any economic system when things are broken, so I wouldn't be surprised to see socialism successfully ride some of these tailwinds. But in the long run, it's really just window dressing. The Luddites were the commie revolutionaries of their day. And that didn't transform anything. Capitalism is deeply embedded.
@goat dude. Go back and listen to Clinton and Obama. On crime. On immigration. On deportation. On self reliance. The closest thing we had to anything resembling either party today was Clinton’s first year and he quickly pivoted to the center. Clinton is farther right than Trump at this point. Trump is like an old democrat and the left are trending socialists/communists. The country has gone way left. There’s a reason no one aloha would like has been elected for decades to the presidency. They and aloha are anachronisms. The left is literally advocating socialism. NYC. Stl. Etc
@aloha-hoosier what you like you will never get again. Your party is dead. Mark my words. Whether that’s a good or bad thing for the country I do not know
@goat even compare and contrast Biden Harris with all their free cheese efforts to have cradle to grave benes. And now even farther left socialists with gov property seizures. Clinton wasn’t that. His programs were nasty. Hard means tested. Dates certain. Sunset provisions.
todays left just opened the border wide and wants to get these unvetted people benes day one.
this country took a hard left
The left/right direction of the country is complicated to pin down.
Economically it’s far more haves/have-nots than in decades. That’s bound to push the left further left.
Equating Trump with leftward movement of the right is dubious because Trump’s a populist outlier.
Socially the left has been pushing the limits continuously and society has been following. The right is pushing back super hard and Roe v Wade got overturned. Anti-woke has united the right significantly.
We don’t need deeply flawed politicians to support those things.
We are not entitled ro what you wish for. I guess the question boils down to what is your price for yielding on those important policy positions. Being an election denier on an election that is finished is too low for me.
We don’t need deeply flawed politicians to support those things.
We are not entitled ro what you wish for. I guess the question boils down to what is your price for yielding on those important policy positions. Being an election denier on an election that is finished is too low for me.
You don't want politicians with integrity to push for our positions? I do.
You don't understand the real damage election denialism has done to the country. It'll take years to recover from the resulting divisiveness, if we ever do.
Both parties suck. One sucks trans dick, the other sucks Trump’s tiny mushroom.
No they don't both suck. I don't care that you're dumb and don't understand how anything works. I'll leave you alone and let you be dumb. The difference is you won't me leave alone. You're an a#% and vote for people that take my sh#t.
You don't want politicians with integrity to push for our positions?
That’s not what I said.
Elections are about choices.
resulting divisiveness
? The divisiveness exists with or without the so-called deniers. This is why democrats steadfastly oppose reforms to boost election confidence.
The entire country has moved way left
I don't think this is true. I think the country has moved right. Or maybe it's just moved populist, with no right/left bias. Some of the top public faces of the Dem party have definitely moved left, but I don't think they represent the country. I don't even think they represent Democrats. Look at a guy like @larsiu - spent most of the last forum as a reliable leftist. And nowadays, he's more likely to say, "Man, fuck these lunatics." I think that's the core of the American "left." The academic/progressive far left is an outlier.
This is why I keep harping on the cost of living. You guys are going to lose badly this fall. But it isn't because America wants Communist Trans Story Hour in every public library. It's because shit is expensive. That's what's been driving elections in the entire West ever since Covid. You keep pushing the Dems to talk about all the woke shit, I guarantee that will close the gap. Because most of America isn't there with them.
NB - slight caveat for the Communist part. People are willing to try just about any economic system when things are broken, so I wouldn't be surprised to see socialism successfully ride some of these tailwinds. But in the long run, it's really just window dressing. The Luddites were the commie revolutionaries of their day. And that didn't transform anything. Capitalism is deeply embedded.
In the 1980s in the U.S. governments controlled around 30%. It's closing in on 40% now. How is that moving to the right?