some groups have lower IQ’s, etc
This is actually bigoted. There is no proof that genetics and/or ethnicity has anything to do with IQ. It has way more to do with socioeconomic and environmental factors. A century ago Irish and Italian immigrants were illiterate and widely considered lower tier citizens that caused a lot trouble. Now look at us. F#&king geniuses, the lot of us.
@oneeyedundertaker it’s reality and the response of Dems only enables it. Dems today are such an absolute cancer. At every level. Just an insidious cancer on sane governance, culture, etc
@ohio-guy no that’s actually not bigoted. This is again knee jerk Dem stupidity. They do have lower iqs. He didn’t say it was attributable to skin color. It absolutely can be a result of the factors you note but that doesn’t change the reality that as a group they have lower iqs. If you believe it’s bc of skin color that is indeed racist. He nor I believe that. I believe it’s economics culture history and democrats today
@ohio-guy no that’s actually not bigoted. This is again knee jerk Dem stupidity. They do have lower iqs. He didn’t say it was attributable to skin color. It absolutely can be a result of the factors you note but that doesn’t change the reality that as a group they have lower iqs. If you believe it’s bc of skin color that is indeed racist. He nor I believe that. I believe it’s economics culture history and democrats today
I get what you're saying, but I think the black community makes up a portion of the overall lower income class struggling with socioeconomic and crime issues, albeit a sizeable one and one that gets more attention. Blanket terms like 'the blacks' when talking about crime is a slippery slope into smuggling in racism into any discussion. And I'm not sure what pointing out lower IQs does to move the debate forward. Who are they being compared to? Rich suburbanites? Any subpopulation of young males is likely to have a lower IQ than a rich middle-aged, educated group. I'd guess young guys in their teens and 20s who have run-ins with the law in rural Appalachia test similarly to their black inner city counterparts. IQ doesn't drive morals and ethics. A general sense of hopelessness and lack of opportunity does.
That's not to say that I don't think harsher penalties, higher police presence and work and investment in inner cities with the intent of making them safer shouldn't be of high importance. I think we're in agreement on that one.
That said, there is a former Republican state rep here in rural Ohio who made a name for himself railing on state government for focusing on the 'three Cs' too much (Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati). His claim was that it was at the expense of rural Appalachian counties. He wasn't/isn't wrong. Though not as highly concentrated, there are high rates of drug abuse, domestic violence and crime in those communities, they just don't get the publicity/notoriety. And Ohio has been under a Republican super majority for the better part of the last 15 years. Ohio's inner cities are stricken with similar problems other cities are. And if weren't for non-profits, medical schools, and charitable arms of hospitals - Democratic or 'woke' strongholds more or less - those negative statistics in those high crime areas would be much worse.
Again, this isn't me turning a blind eye to crime and crime statistics. I agree that we as a country should do more to give people the tools to lift themselves out of poverty. There aren't really easy answers to how to go about doing that though. I don't think there is an easy Democratic or Republican solution.
@ohio-guy no that’s actually not bigoted. This is again knee jerk Dem stupidity. They do have lower iqs. He didn’t say it was attributable to skin color. It absolutely can be a result of the factors you note but that doesn’t change the reality that as a group they have lower iqs. If you believe it’s bc of skin color that is indeed racist. He nor I believe that. I believe it’s economics culture history and democrats today
I get what you're saying, but I think the black community makes up a portion of the overall lower income class struggling with socioeconomic and crime issues, albeit a sizeable one and one that gets more attention. Blanket terms like 'the blacks' when talking about crime is a slippery slope into smuggling in racism into any discussion. And I'm not sure what pointing out lower IQs does to move the debate forward. Who are they being compared to? Rich suburbanites? Any subpopulation of young males is likely to have a lower IQ than a rich middle-aged, educated group. I'd guess young guys in their teens and 20s who have run-ins with the law in rural Appalachia test similarly to their black inner city counterparts. IQ doesn't drive morals and ethics. A general sense of hopelessness and lack of opportunity does.
That's not to say that I don't think harsher penalties, higher police presence and work and investment in inner cities with the intent of making them safer shouldn't be of high importance. I think we're in agreement on that one.
That said, there is a former Republican state rep here in rural Ohio who made a name for himself railing on state government for focusing on the 'three Cs' too much (Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati). His claim was that it was at the expense of rural Appalachian counties. He wasn't/isn't wrong. Though not as highly concentrated, there are high rates of drug abuse, domestic violence and crime in those communities, they just don't get the publicity/notoriety. And Ohio has been under a Republican super majority for the better part of the last 15 years. Ohio's inner cities are stricken with similar problems other cities are. And if weren't for non-profits, medical schools, and charitable arms of hospitals - Democratic or 'woke' strongholds more or less - those negative statistics in those high crime areas would be much worse.
Again, this isn't me turning a blind eye to crime and crime statistics. I agree that we as a country should do more to give people the tools to lift themselves out of poverty. There aren't really easy answers to how to go about doing that though. I don't think there is an easy Democratic or Republican solution.
This sounds a lot like making excuses and not confronting the problem, which is not a racial one, but a cultural one.
@ohio-guy there are 140,000 blanks in stl city. They will shoot more people than all the people in the state of West Virginia combined. There’s no other group remotely comparable to blacks when it comes to violent crime. They are a cultural mess as well. Street takeovers. On and on. As jet noted some things are just true. As uncomfortable as they may be
@ohio-guy there are 140,000 blanks in stl city. They will shoot more people than all the people in the state of West Virginia combined. There’s no other group remotely comparable to blacks when it comes to violent crime. They are a cultural mess as well. Street takeovers. On and on. As jet noted some things are just true. As uncomfortable as they may be
That’s because of the strict gun laws that West Virginia imposed…oh wait, must be something else
This sounds a lot like making excuses and not confronting the problem, which is not a racial one, but a cultural one.
If by 'cultural' you mean social norms created by socioeconomic challenges and other environmental challenges then we're pretty much on common ground. If by 'cultural' you mean black culture explains black criminal behavior I can't get there.
And explaining causes doesn't excuse bad behavior.
That’s because of the strict gun laws that West Virginia imposed…oh wait, must be something else
What else do you think it is? I'm genuinely curious in your answer.
@ohio-guy there are whites that have many of the same challenges with a fraction of the violent crimes Appalachia is an example. At some point the excuses just carry on from decade to decade. It’s economics. It’s a gun problem. Well eventually it’s actually a you problem and the excuses get stale. Fatigue is real. I live in a city where people are frankly over it. The comments on the news sites are not kind. People are tired of black behavior. That’s why I’d like to explore reparations. Nothing else is working
if I could go to a city game without stray bullets. Or target without the smell of weed. Or a museum and not wonder if my windows are getting busted out or take my kid on the train without witnessing a drug deal or a shooting I’d happily kick in for reparations
some groups have lower IQ’s, etc
This is actually bigoted. There is no proof that genetics and/or ethnicity has anything to do with IQ. It has way more to do with socioeconomic and environmental factors. A century ago Irish and Italian immigrants were illiterate and widely considered lower tier citizens that caused a lot trouble. Now look at us. F#&king geniuses, the lot of us.
This is your problem (liberals in general) on a lot of issues. You have this worldview that is complete nonsense. Yes, your genes play a major role in your IQ.
@ohio-guy there are whites that have many of the same challenges with a fraction of the violent crimes Appalachia is an example. At some point the excuses just carry on from decade to decade. It’s economics. It’s a gun problem. Well eventually it’s actually a you problem and the excuses get stale. Fatigue is real. I live in a city where people are frankly over it. The comments on the news sites are not kind. People are tired of black behavior. That’s why I’d like to explore reparations. Nothing else is working
if I could go to a city game without stray bullets. Or target without the smell of weed. Or a museum and not wonder if my windows are getting busted out or take my kid on the train without witnessing a drug deal or a shooting I’d happily kick in for reparations
We have been doing reparations for decades. It's called welfare and it hasn't improved the situation.
@snarlcakes we have and I’ve become critical of it for reasons I’ve belabored. It’s a bandaid and it appeals to people who like government and blah blah but I think we learned some things from Covid and I’d like to get rid of a lot of these pass through funded programs etc and just pay cash for a set amount of time. Wouldn’t cost any more. And look it might be a bust. But I want to see
@ohio-guy there are whites that have many of the same challenges with a fraction of the violent crimes Appalachia is an example. At some point the excuses just carry on from decade to decade. It’s economics. It’s a gun problem. Well eventually it’s actually a you problem and the excuses get stale. Fatigue is real. I live in a city where people are frankly over it. The comments on the news sites are not kind. People are tired of black behavior. That’s why I’d like to explore reparations. Nothing else is working
if I could go to a city game without stray bullets. Or target without the smell of weed. Or a museum and not wonder if my windows are getting busted out or take my kid on the train without witnessing a drug deal or a shooting I’d happily kick in for reparations
I don't think anyone is arguing that people committing violent crimes shouldn't be held responsible for their actions. Obviously they absolutely should.
Inner city violence isn't necessarily 'black behavior' anymore than opioid addiction, overdoses, and domestic violence in Appalachian areas is a 'white behavior.' The overwhelming majority of black people aren't committing homicides or robberies just like the overwhelming majority of white people aren't dying of drug overdoses and beating their wives and kids. Again, not excusing the behavior but inner city violence and crime is mostly confined to a small area and small group of people. That is undeniably a very serious problem that needs to be addressed on a lot of levels but turning the concentrated actions of that relatively small group of people into a description of millions of people is where this is getting into racial stereotyping.
I totally get that the fatigue of dealing with violence and crime is real. It's easy to see why people would be angry, frightened and exhausted by all that. The generalizations about the behavior of an entire race and/or its culture is where I get tripped up in this conversation.
This is your problem (liberals in general) on a lot of issues. You have this worldview that is complete nonsense. Yes, your genes play a major role in your IQ.
OK then. I'm interested in hearing why you brought it up in this context.