the longer this goes on, the worse it will get for Israel in terms of worldview. We all agreed on that a long time ago.
From the beginning. And Hamas knows this. It's why they've fought this war the way they have and why they invite Palestinian suffering.
And it appears some are dumb enough to fall for it & blame Israel. There is one & only one group of people to blame for all of this.
@goat very well said. This is how many American Jews stuck in the middle feel. Seeing the starvation makes every day harder to stay silent.
Again as an American Jew you don’t want to be tied to the leftist Jews who sympathize with anti-zionists and you also don’t want to be tied to the hardline orthodox who see no wrong in Bibi.
@goat very well said. This is how many American Jews stuck in the middle feel. Seeing the starvation makes every day harder to stay silent.
Again as an American Jew you don’t want to be tied to the leftist Jews who sympathize with anti-zionists and you also don’t want to be tied to the hardline orthodox who see no wrong in Bibi.
This is why I said on the old forum I was ready for the US to wash its hands of the whole thing. As a non-Jew, I have more freedom to come to that conclusion than you, I imagine. But it's not because of false equivalence. I don't think both sides are equal. Both sides are awful, yes, but obviously, if you have to pick sides, Hamas are the bad guys. It's simply that, in the big picture, I see a conflict between two sets of bad actors. Did Hamas' actions directly lead to the current conflict? Yes. And they wanted it to. They are evil. But there's a reason every flare up of this conflict ends up in casualties skewed towards the Palestinians 10-to-1, and it's not because the Israelis are prioritizing civilian safety.
@goat and Americans need to remind themselves of the two sides which would gladly kill Americans.
@eppy99 I love ya brother but please drop it with the "My people, my tribe" nonsense. JDB is also a son of Abraham, he's from Glencoe which is the most Jewish city in the world outside of Israel. You don't hear him doing that. He focuses in on murderous rage towards Muslims.
Jewish Americans opinions on Israel are a diverse as any other subset of Americans. However if you take out the Reformed, half-church Jews and the cultural jews that haven't been to Shul in decades you have the Conservative and Orthodox Jews who are overwhelmingly supportive of Bibi and Israel's actions in Gaza.
Those are the opinions that matter. I don't care what what a reformed jew has to say about Israel, their opinion holds about as much weight as my Catholic opinion.
On the Gaza point in general. 90% of what people think they know about starvation and suffering in Gaza is BS. It's not a problem with the Israeli's not letting in enough food, it is and has been a distribution problem by all available accounts.
UNRWA can't distribute it, it gets commandeered. UNRWA refuses to go into Gaza under IDF escort to ensure safe distribution. Which is nuts.
GHF is doing excellent work actually creating secure distribution sites and getting food into Gaza. They've been pilloried by the Western press because they're not associated with the U.N.
GHF is doing excellent work actually creating secure distribution sites and getting food into Gaza. They’ve been pilloried by the Western press because they’re not associated with the U.N.
I believe in the last round of negotiations with Hamas one of their big asks was that GHF stop providing food to their people.
@goatoatoatoatoatoat, the reason the casualties are skewed is because Hamas hides among its civilians, violating international law. No one ever describes it that way, though. Israel tries to some degree to protect civilians; Hamas targets them. Another violation of international law never discussed.
To me, Hamas is a clear bad actor and terrorist organization. Israel seems to be a nation that overall is trying the impossible—prosecuting a humanitarian war against a terrorist organization that’s hides among its populace—a populace that is helping Hamas hide, and sympathetic to their overarching goals. They make a lot of mistakes and overreach some times. I disagree though that they are intentionally attempting genocide or mass starvation.
@bradstevens further to what I was saying yesterday, this is quite timely
I"m not going to spend too much time responding. I fear it will mostly become an emotional response. I'll try and keep it simple.@eppy99 I love ya brother but please drop it with the "My people, my tribe" nonsense. JDB is also a son of Abraham, he's from Glencoe which is the most Jewish city in the world outside of Israel. You don't hear him doing that. He focuses in on murderous rage towards Muslims.
Jewish Americans opinions on Israel are a diverse as any other subset of Americans. However if you take out the Reformed, half-church Jews and the cultural jews that haven't been to Shul in decades you have the Conservative and Orthodox Jews who are overwhelmingly supportive of Bibi and Israel's actions in Gaza.
Those are the opinions that matter. I don't care what what a reformed jew has to say about Israel, their opinion holds about as much weight as my Catholic opinion.
On the Gaza point in general. 90% of what people think they know about starvation and suffering in Gaza is BS. It's not a problem with the Israeli's not letting in enough food, it is and has been a distribution problem by all available accounts.
UNRWA can't distribute it, it gets commandeered. UNRWA refuses to go into Gaza under IDF escort to ensure safe distribution. Which is nuts.
GHF is doing excellent work actually creating secure distribution sites and getting food into Gaza. They've been pilloried by the Western press because they're not associated with the U.N.
1) I have no issue referring to them as "my people." We don't all look the same, pray the same or have the same opinions or idealogies, but if I had to lay my life down for Israel in battle I would.
2) I'm willing to give my life mostly because of the Holocaust. My wife's family was almost entirely wiped out. Having a homeland is paramount to our survival. My brother-in-law is moving to Israel soon becuase of what's called The Law of Return. This law enables any born Jew to return to our homeland becuase of persecution or just to immigrate.
3) This idea you have that only conservative and orthodox Jewish opinions matter, tells me you really don't know a thing about "my people." Most Jews in Israel consider themselves secular. As for American Jews, I belong to both a reform and conservative synagogue (don't ask, smh). I take great offense that you would think my opinion doesn't matter. My money matters when I make my donations, my blood would matter if I were to fight in the army, it matters that I've sent my kids to a Jewish Day School, a Jewish summer camp, I've taught all three of my girls to read torah. It matters that every Friday night we celebrate Shabbat together. It matters that on my oldest daughters Bat Mitzvah she had to share that day with the Tree of Life mass shooting in Pittsburgh. It matters that my middle daughters Bat Mitzvah was canceled twice during covid and we eventually had it underneath a tent with only 30 people allowed. Our conservative Rabbi had health issues and didn't want to share the pulpit so we built a seperate riser where my two oldest Torah readers along with my wife and myself led the entire Torah service. This entire service was broadcast via zoom to friends and family across the US and Israel. We do all of this becasue we care about our religion, we care about our family and we care about Israel's future being a land we can always return to.
4) Regardless of who is at fault, there clearly is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. We all should be sick to our stomachs to see what's happening. It shouldn't matter if the person is Muslim, Jewish, Christian, etc.
I think you and I will not see eye to eye on this and that's ok. I'm not interested in going back and forth. I will however not allow for you to say my opinion or other non conservative/orthodox opinions don't matter. Your support of Israel is very important to me. If you've never made the trip I encourage you to do so when it's safe.
@eppy99 of course I’ve made the trip. My upbringing via my Jewish stepmom was likely saw more Seder’s Hanukkah’s, and Shul’s than yourself. Stop performatively handwringing about Gaza.
The Israeli’s see this as an existential threat, who are you to judge that? You’re no more Israeli than I.
I"m not going to spend too much time responding. I fear it will mostly become an emotional response. I'll try and keep it simple.@eppy99 I love ya brother but please drop it with the "My people, my tribe" nonsense. JDB is also a son of Abraham, he's from Glencoe which is the most Jewish city in the world outside of Israel. You don't hear him doing that. He focuses in on murderous rage towards Muslims.
Jewish Americans opinions on Israel are a diverse as any other subset of Americans. However if you take out the Reformed, half-church Jews and the cultural jews that haven't been to Shul in decades you have the Conservative and Orthodox Jews who are overwhelmingly supportive of Bibi and Israel's actions in Gaza.
Those are the opinions that matter. I don't care what what a reformed jew has to say about Israel, their opinion holds about as much weight as my Catholic opinion.
On the Gaza point in general. 90% of what people think they know about starvation and suffering in Gaza is BS. It's not a problem with the Israeli's not letting in enough food, it is and has been a distribution problem by all available accounts.
UNRWA can't distribute it, it gets commandeered. UNRWA refuses to go into Gaza under IDF escort to ensure safe distribution. Which is nuts.
GHF is doing excellent work actually creating secure distribution sites and getting food into Gaza. They've been pilloried by the Western press because they're not associated with the U.N.
1) I have no issue referring to them as "my people." We don't all look the same, pray the same or have the same opinions or idealogies, but if I had to lay my life down for Israel in battle I would.
2) I'm willing to give my life mostly because of the Holocaust. My wife's family was almost entirely wiped out. Having a homeland is paramount to our survival. My brother-in-law is moving to Israel soon becuase of what's called The Law of Return. This law enables any born Jew to return to our homeland becuase of persecution or just to immigrate.
3) This idea you have that only conservative and orthodox Jewish opinions matter, tells me you really don't know a thing about "my people." Most Jews in Israel consider themselves secular. As for American Jews, I belong to both a reform and conservative synagogue (don't ask, smh). I take great offense that you would think my opinion doesn't matter. My money matters when I make my donations, my blood would matter if I were to fight in the army, it matters that I've sent my kids to a Jewish Day School, a Jewish summer camp, I've taught all three of my girls to read torah. It matters that every Friday night we celebrate Shabbat together. It matters that on my oldest daughters Bat Mitzvah she had to share that day with the Tree of Life mass shooting in Pittsburgh. It matters that my middle daughters Bat Mitzvah was canceled twice during covid and we eventually had it underneath a tent with only 30 people allowed. Our conservative Rabbi had health issues and didn't want to share the pulpit so we built a seperate riser where my two oldest Torah readers along with my wife and myself led the entire Torah service. This entire service was broadcast via zoom to friends and family across the US and Israel. We do all of this becasue we care about our religion, we care about our family and we care about Israel's future being a land we can always return to.
4) Regardless of who is at fault, there clearly is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. We all should be sick to our stomachs to see what's happening. It shouldn't matter if the person is Muslim, Jewish, Christian, etc.
I think you and I will not see eye to eye on this and that's ok. I'm not interested in going back and forth. I will however not allow for you to say my opinion or other non conservative/orthodox opinions don't matter. Your support of Israel is very important to me. If you've never made the trip I encourage you to do so when it's safe.
You’re not special or unique. I also know people that attended Tree of Life. Oh wait, you don’t even know any members of “your tribe” that went there. But it shared a date with something or other?
Again. Stop the performative handwringing.
If you have a prescription, you should offer it.
@carramrod You're way out of line here.
This is how we lose great people around here.
Throwing around “great” a little loosely. His banal view on Gaza is white noise.
He tried explaining the law of return to me. He truly thinks no one else has ever met a Jew and behaves accordingly. It’s kind of weird.
@carramrod yea, I think I'm done with this conversation. I'm glad you value Israel as much as I do.
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