https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2011944349529960820?s=20
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2011962871043797210?s=20
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2011529326659797017?s=20
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2011937351585439986?s=20
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2011245839096725808?s=20
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2010845403374104701?s=20
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2010730496838496389?s=20
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/2010452138951114881?s=20
I think the point is that ICE's enforcing the immigration laws against non-violent criminals doesn't make it the Gestapo. ICE raids that produce what appear to be very bad results occur more than we'd like to admit, partly because it's the nature of what they do. Pinning it all on Trump makes little sense. And if you look at the overall numbers, Trump isn't close to Obama, while he's dealing with a much worse influx from his predecessor.
And yet, we have these anti-ICE people forming groups to do way more than protest and make their voice known, but in fact actively obstruct the enforcement of laws validly passed through the democratic process and some politicians egging them on.
I think some of these people--like the Milwaukee judge and I brought this up then--now treat and think of illegal aliens as runaway slaves. I had a buddy this weekend make precisely that analogy, and then when I pushed him on it, he thought he was being more reasonable by switching to "housing Jews" when they were being hunted. He called it the civil rights issue of our time. WTF?? How has the Overton Window among Democrats moved so close to open boarders and flat-out insurrection? I guess I could ask the same about MAGA, too, but we've covered that a lot before, and I'm more tied in with liberals and thought these people were smarter or more consistent than this.
@bradstevens All of it is just window dressing. It's taking the position opposite of Trump. If it were Biden doing this you wouldn't hear a word. It's all just anti Trump.
I think the point is that ICE's enforcing the immigration laws against non-violent criminals doesn't make it the Gestapo. ICE raids that produce what appear to be very bad results occur more than we'd like to admit, partly because it's the nature of what they do. Pinning it all on Trump makes little sense. And if you look at the overall numbers, Trump isn't close to Obama, while he's dealing with a much worse influx from his predecessor.
And yet, we have these anti-ICE people forming groups to do way more than protest and make their voice known, but in fact actively obstruct the enforcement of laws validly passed through the democratic process and some politicians egging them on.
I think some of these people--like the Milwaukee judge and I brought this up then--now treat and think of illegal aliens as runaway slaves. I had a buddy this weekend make precisely that analogy, and then when I pushed him on it, he thought he was being more reasonable by switching to "housing Jews" when they were being hunted. He called it the civil rights issue of our time. WTF?? How has the Overton Window among Democrats moved so close to open boarders and flat-out insurrection? I guess I could ask the same about MAGA, too, but we've covered that a lot before, and I'm more tied in with liberals and thought these people were smarter or more consistent than this.
Joe Rogan criticizes ICE tactics: 'Are we really going to be the Gestapo?'
I think the point is that ICE's enforcing the immigration laws against non-violent criminals doesn't make it the Gestapo. ICE raids that produce what appear to be very bad results occur more than we'd like to admit, partly because it's the nature of what they do. Pinning it all on Trump makes little sense. And if you look at the overall numbers, Trump isn't close to Obama, while he's dealing with a much worse influx from his predecessor.
And yet, we have these anti-ICE people forming groups to do way more than protest and make their voice known, but in fact actively obstruct the enforcement of laws validly passed through the democratic process and some politicians egging them on.
I think some of these people--like the Milwaukee judge and I brought this up then--now treat and think of illegal aliens as runaway slaves. I had a buddy this weekend make precisely that analogy, and then when I pushed him on it, he thought he was being more reasonable by switching to "housing Jews" when they were being hunted. He called it the civil rights issue of our time. WTF?? How has the Overton Window among Democrats moved so close to open boarders and flat-out insurrection? I guess I could ask the same about MAGA, too, but we've covered that a lot before, and I'm more tied in with liberals and thought these people were smarter or more consistent than this.
I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but the criticisms flying around right now are about far more than just raw numbers. Which Obama agent shot a woman in the face in her car? I don't remember that happening. Is that because the liberal press hid it from me?
@goat I don't remember any big-boobed cabinet member - - of DHS or any other agency - - posing in front of dozens of imprisoned, half-naked men, crowded together like animals in a bad zoo. And am not remembering hype videos like the video montage of ICE raids set to the theme song of Pokemon captioned "Got to catch them all." Or a Christmas-themed video using AI to depict Santa Claus as an ICE agent rounding up migrants for deportation. Or other DHS-produced/promoted videos of raids, including one titled "Operation Midway Blitz" in Chicago, using footage featuring Black Hawk helicopters.
This is propaganda shit, and makes light of serious, life-or-death situations. Of course there's going to be backlash.
I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but the criticisms flying around right now are about far more than just raw numbers. Which Obama agent shot a woman in the face in her car? I don't remember that happening. Is that because the liberal press hid it from me?
Isn't that precisely the point? Libs have lost their minds and decided to protest because Trump is now ordering the same as Obama. I'd be open to listening to an argument that ICE has been directed to be more aggressive and physically violent than it was under Democratic administrations, but the burden of proof should be on those making that point.
This crazy lib moron wouldn't have been in the situation under Obama. Just like Babbit wouldn't have been at the Capitol on Jan 6th if Trump had won. Neither behavior should be excused and neither's death was a good thing. But, it was a comparable example of stupid people doing stupid things in tense situations with armed law enforcement.
I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but the criticisms flying around right now are about far more than just raw numbers. Which Obama agent shot a woman in the face in her car? I don't remember that happening. Is that because the liberal press hid it from me?
Isn't that precisely the point? Libs have lost their minds and decided to protest because Trump is now ordering the same as Obama. I'd be open to listening to an argument that ICE has been directed to be more aggressive and physically violent than it was under Democratic administrations, but the burden of proof should be on those making that point.
This crazy lib moron wouldn't have been in the situation under Obama. Just like Babbit wouldn't have been at the Capitol on Jan 6th if Trump had won. Neither behavior should be excused and neither's death was a good thing. But, it was a comparable example of stupid people doing stupid things in tense situations with armed law enforcement.
You're missing the point. People aren't complaining because Trump is ordering the same as Obama - some on the left are, for sure, but keep following me - they are complaining because the officers are behaving in a way they never did under Obama, or anyone. Blame the woman all you want, there is no universe in which that woman dies in the Obama presidency. Regardless of how many people he deported. It's not just results; it's method. That's what people are upset about.
@big-ryan I think this is probably part of it too. There’s a meanness with Trump that isn’t necessary.
I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but the criticisms flying around right now are about far more than just raw numbers. Which Obama agent shot a woman in the face in her car? I don't remember that happening. Is that because the liberal press hid it from me?
Isn't that precisely the point? Libs have lost their minds and decided to protest because Trump is now ordering the same as Obama. I'd be open to listening to an argument that ICE has been directed to be more aggressive and physically violent than it was under Democratic administrations, but the burden of proof should be on those making that point.
This crazy lib moron wouldn't have been in the situation under Obama. Just like Babbit wouldn't have been at the Capitol on Jan 6th if Trump had won. Neither behavior should be excused and neither's death was a good thing. But, it was a comparable example of stupid people doing stupid things in tense situations with armed law enforcement.
You're missing the point. People aren't complaining because Trump is ordering the same as Obama - some on the left are, for sure, but keep following me - they are complaining because the officers are behaving in a way they never did under Obama, or anyone. Blame the woman all you want, there is no universe in which that woman dies in the Obama presidency. Regardless of how many people he deported. It's not just results; it's method. That's what people are upset about.
Then prove it with data, directives, etc. We have far less video footage given how far things have come in the past 10-15 years, but it seems like an accusation that needs some backing.
There are two sides to this coin. One side is what Brad is pointing out. The other is that Obama was portrayed as a radical progressive while doing what Brad listed. I know radical progressives and said at the time they hated Obama. But the myth continued based frankly around his skin color.
Butch lists some of the differences above, and I will add in the masks are different. The difference can best be described as under Obama it was, "we do this because we must" and under Trump it has become, "we do this because it makes us feel powerful and we enjoy it."
Observing law enforcement is fine, in fact it is good. Police work for the citizenry and verifying they are doing it right is important. Warning of ICE actions is not observing and is wrong.
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