You are overthinking this. Think of the root words “national” and “patriot”. Adding the suffix “ism” to both and you get what I think makes more sense.
National means nothing more than an entity being organized around a country instead of a state or locality. Thus we have national banks, national sports leagues, national you name its. A nationalist is a passive recognition of the country and implies support of everything that serves the common interests, including mutual respect for all who comprise the country.
Patriot on the other hand refers to people. It is more active and focuses on what people do and say. I personally view patriotism as positive actions. When somebody like DiNiro yells “ fuck Trump” in a concert hall, I don’t see that as patriotism. If he would say or do something positive like “Biden is great,” id see that as patriotism, but not something I agree with.
You are overthinking this. Think of the root words “national” and “patriot”. Adding the suffix “ism” to both and you get what I think makes more sense.
National means nothing more than an entity being organized around a country instead of a state or locality. Thus we have national banks, national sports leagues, national you name its. A nationalist is a passive recognition of the country and implies support of everything that serves the common interests, including mutual respect for all who comprise the country.
Patriot on the other hand refers to people. It is more active and focuses on what people do and say. I personally view patriotism as positive actions. When somebody like DiNiro yells “ fuck Trump” in a concert hall, I don’t see that as patriotism. If he would say or do something positive like “Biden is great,” id see that as patriotism, but not something I agree with.
If DeNiro yelled "Biden is great," you'd see that as patriotism? I'd view it as insanity.
In any event, who gives a rat's ass what DeNiro thinks or says? When influential politicians, though, show utter disrespect for a US president, that's a different story. I'm assuming you were harsh in your criticism of Ted Cruz when he posed with a "Let's Go Brandon" sign at the World Series, and when Ron DeSantis referenced the "Brandon" administration.
You are overthinking this. Think of the root words “national” and “patriot”. Adding the suffix “ism” to both and you get what I think makes more sense.
National means nothing more than an entity being organized around a country instead of a state or locality. Thus we have national banks, national sports leagues, national you name its. A nationalist is a passive recognition of the country and implies support of everything that serves the common interests, including mutual respect for all who comprise the country.
Patriot on the other hand refers to people. It is more active and focuses on what people do and say. I personally view patriotism as positive actions. When somebody like DiNiro yells “ fuck Trump” in a concert hall, I don’t see that as patriotism. If he would say or do something positive like “Biden is great,” id see that as patriotism, but not something I agree with.
This is frankly rubbish. You're just inventing fake definitions and etymologies out of thin air.
The “ism” suffix has generally accepted meanings.
The term "nationalism" also has a generally accepted meaning. There's no reason to be in a discussion about nationalism if you refuse to use the accepted definition and invent your own. At that point, you're no longer talking about nationalism, at all. You're talking about something else that you're simply mislabeling.
I think your argument that separates nationalism from its root word “nation” is a crock. Not that you can’t find academics who support that idea.
I think your argument that separates nationalism from its root word “nation” is a crock. Not that you can’t find academics who support that idea.
More rubbish. You are stubbornly refusing to use language the way everyone else does simply so you can try to sabotage the conversation. This is pointless.
This thread is pathetic. These definitions are not as subjective as some of you are making them seem.
Just use Merriam-Webster's (the standard for American English):
Nationalism: an ideology that elevates one nation or nationality above all others and that places primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations, nationalities, or supranational groups
Webster is incomplete. Nationalism is love and affection for the land, institutions, history, people, cultures, etc. of a nation. There is no element of superiority to it. That’s not to say a given system of governance or due process might be seen as superior, but those discrete features are not broad- based nationalism.
Norway is probably one of the most nationalistic countries. You would be hard-pressed to find a group of Norwegians who denigrate and dislike their own country, its traditions and history.
When nationalism morphs into notions of superiority, you’ll usually find racism or authoritarianism in the mix.
CO confirms that he's making up his own definition. People who call themselves Nationalists usually have authoritarian mindsets and bigoted opinions of persons of other cultures. "We should stand alone. Keep our traditions unsullied by outsiders". Nationalists can claim to be Patriots, of course, but Patriotism per se has no such baggage.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
True confessions from the primary exponent of American Exceptionalism from the inception of the Water Cooler. 😉When nationalism morphs into notions of superiority, you’ll usually find racism or authoritarianism in the mix.
Yep. Our land, people, political and economic system has made us exceptional. We should be nationalistic about that.
Nationalists usually have authoritarian mindsets and bigoted opinions of persons of other cultures.
Says who?
Can’t say I disagree. My main quibble with that is that our post-WW2 rise to superpowerdom significantly included raising the well being of all willing nations until Trump’s version of “nationalism” took hold.Yep. Our land, people, political and economic system has made us exceptional. We should be nationalistic about that.
I’m curious how you can reconcile that without vigorous use of a crowbar.
Says who?
Anyone who bothers to understand the plain meaning of the word. That includes thinking people, dictionary editors among them.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451