Everyone should pay the same tax structure. Why we tax workers so much more than the investor class is a huge mystery.
The whole "no taxes on tips" shtick was to buy votes in Nevada, nothing more.
Everyone should pay the same tax structure. Why we tax workers so much more than the investor class is a huge mystery.
The whole "no taxes on tips" shtick was to buy votes in Nevada, nothing more.
https://twitter.com/RepDavidKustoff/status/1949915184329343436?s=20
The door dash driver testified last year in Nevada about this.
Everyone should pay the same tax structure. Why we tax workers so much more than the investor class is a huge mystery.
Are you advocating for a flat tax? Seems like this idea is incorrect.
And this isn't new:
Let us compare apples to apples. We both make $400,000, you by working me by investing. Who will pay more in federal income tax? Why is that?
The common answer to why is that I have risked my money. While true, if I lose that money I get to write it off. Secondly, what if you lose money as a worker. Not possible? Suppose you are paid monthly and 30 days into the month your company goes bankrupt. You don't get the money (time is money for a worker) that you invested that month. You don't get to write that loss off.
Everyone should pay the same tax structure. Why we tax workers so much more than the investor class is a huge mystery.
Are you advocating for a flat tax? Seems like this idea is incorrect.
And this isn't new:
Let us compare apples to apples. We both make $400,000, you by working me by investing. Who will pay more in federal income tax? Why is that?
The common answer to why is that I have risked my money. While true, if I lose that money I get to write it off. Secondly, what if you lose money as a worker. Not possible? Suppose you are paid monthly and 30 days into the month your company goes bankrupt. You don't get the money (time is money for a worker) that you invested that month. You don't get to write that loss off.
Here are my thoughts on this argument.
While true, if I lose that money, I get to write it off.
Only as an offset against other income. This isn't Seinfeld. It's not like you can write off a $400K loss and the Government is going to mail you a check for that amount, regardless of what Kramer wants you to believe. In addition, there are limitations on how much you can write off. If a capital gain is recorded, it is fully taxable immediately. I do not believe you can simply take your full "at risk" amount and write it down, but I'm not a CPA (thank god!). The one time Stoll could have actually added value!
Secondly, what if you lose money as a worker. Not possible? Suppose you are paid monthly and 30 days into the month your company goes bankrupt. You don't get the money (time is money for a worker) that you invested that month. You don't get to write that loss off.
Two thoughts here:
1) This would be an extremely rare circumstance. Employee wages are one of the first payments (priority claims) made via liquidation and are protected by bankruptcy rules (not negotiated as part of restructurings). I'm not saying it has never happened, but it is quite rare. There may (don't know for sure) be Federal or State backstops against these to protect worker wages in such an event. As such, the risk is hardly comparable to equity risk.
2) In such a rare event where this occurs, I would be fine with some type of modification to allow a worker to get that write off.
Everyone should pay the same tax structure. Why we tax workers so much more than the investor class is a huge mystery.
Are you advocating for a flat tax? Seems like this idea is incorrect.
And this isn't new:
Let us compare apples to apples. We both make $400,000, you by working me by investing. Who will pay more in federal income tax? Why is that?
The common answer to why is that I have risked my money. While true, if I lose that money I get to write it off. Secondly, what if you lose money as a worker. Not possible? Suppose you are paid monthly and 30 days into the month your company goes bankrupt. You don't get the money (time is money for a worker) that you invested that month. You don't get to write that loss off.
Not sure it's apples to apples. I'm no stooge for The Man but here's me playing devil's advocate for him...
Wages are a priority claim under chapter 7, but $400k in common stock goes to the back of the line. Workers have to put food on the table but their ability to earn doesn't go away; a $400k lost or tied-up investment can't go get a new job.
Companies pay taxes on profits. Investors then pay taxes on dividends and (eventually on capital gains) received from those profits. This would kinda be like taxing a company's gross revenue, passing that burden on to employees, and then collecting income tax.
If a corporation earns $100:
- Corporate Tax (Approx. 21%+): ~$25.77 is paid in combined federal/state corporate taxes.
- Remaining Cash: $74.23 remains for distribution.
- Dividend Tax (Up to 23.8%): ~$21.70 is paid in combined federal/state taxes on the dividend.
- Final After-Tax Income: ~$52.53.
- Total Integrated Rate: The total tax paid ($25.77 + $21.70) is roughly 47.47% of the original $100 profit.
@arthur-dent do you believe institutional investors are not “working”? What is it you think they do all day? Just throw money at whatever feels right in the moment?
Retail investors should also be “working” in the sense they shouldn’t be treating buying assets like they’re gambling.
The love, loyalty, and devotion of the left is to further enriching the millionaire elites in the Washington Establishment, even at the expense of poor Americans trying to get ahead by delivering food.
@carramrod so if that is there job, why not tax them the same?
While my plan, think of all the things people invest in that don't benefit anyone else. Bitcoin is one. Some people love it, don't have to do a hundred hours of research before buying more, and it creates virtually no jobs. Artwork creates very few jobs per million spent. Coins? Baseball cards? They get the same tax advantage that investing so a company can drill a new well, or build a new factory. Why?
So you don't like the old plan, why not the new? If we want investors because they create jobs, give the advantage to investments that create jobs.
@carramrod so if that is there job, why not tax them the same?
They pay cap gains AND corporate income tax. And personal income tax.
They're probably taxed more.
They pay cap gains AND corporate income tax. And personal income tax.
The corporation is a totally different entity, IT pays the corporate tax. I have people right now working on my house, I will pay them money I was taxed on when I received it. Does that mean they do not have to pay taxes on it, that money has been taxed.
And the Bitcoin investor pays no corporate tax on their profit, assuming the investor did not incorporate to buy the coin.
@arthur-dent I’m struggling to understand your point other than you want art, bitcoin, baseball cards and coin investors taxed more.
Institutional investors make their revenue, in part, from selling assets. They pay cap gains when they do. They then pay corporate income tax on that, then they pay personal income tax for their employees.
What is the issue? You want a higher cap gains rate? Like you said money used to buy assets has already been taxed. The hedge fund manager and the plumber are both paying income tax. Just the hedge fund manager pays a much higher rate.
@carramrod if I have owned Microsoft stock since 1985, what exactly do I pay tax on if I sold it tomorrow? I do not believe I pay any corporate tax or employee tax. I really believe I would pay cap gains and that is it. So if I sell $400,000 I pay cap gains, no income tax, no corporate tax, no employee taxes (Social Security, Medicare, etc). Just cap gains
You are employed by someone else and make $400,000 you pay income tax that is higher and you pay the employee taxes.