@iunorth lots of good posts and thoughts iunorth. politics and careers are a funny thing. i suspect jd is far and away the smartest of the lot on either side. i like him too. but he made a career decision to kind of sell his soul and get in league with trump. i don't necessarily blame him for doing so. so much in life is timing. i understand the process of transferring money etc but i think a number of dems missed their chance last go around stepping back. even with a truncated campaign they probably should have thought about going for it in light of how bad biden and harris were. i think you kind of see that with desantis too. very smart guy. but i think he missed his opportunity. that window closed. so again i don't blame vance for putting his cards in when he did. but now he has to live with some of that taint. trump has been really, really bad this term and it won't be that easy for vance to distance himself from same
Pence made the same timing calculation and it could have gotten him killed.
But I'm not sure how a POTUS can actually do, or solve, much of anything without being able to unite Washington, at least a little bit.
A president is not a moderator whose job is to make sure people are unified on the same page. The president, and his staff and advisors, are the leaders who create solutions to problems and then bring people into the fold. I think there are enough reasonable people on both sides that this wouldn’t be as hard as you assume. I’m thinking of Lincoln’s team of rivals here.
And the coalition of those who advance solutions might be different depending on the issue being considered.
But my overriding point is that the biggest problems cannot be solved by uniting left and right. The problems, like the budget, can’t be solved that way.
@unclemark yeah i mean it's a risk. most of the billionaires' philosphy is action. go. don't wait. i think that's probably right most of the time.
I think there are enough reasonable people on both sides that this wouldn’t be as hard as you assume.
i believe our electorate is dumber not smarter. and i think 24/7 news and media and social media have forever altered the profile of who can garner enough juice to get traction. i don't think it's a coincidence athat a reality tv star is the president and the leader of the dem party is a 30 something cute bubbly bartender
he made a career decision to kind of sell his soul and get in league with trump.
I think just the opposite. Vance won over Trump. True that Vance was somewhat apologetic for some of the negative things he said about Trump, noting that he was taken by the media in that regard. I think that was absolutely a true statement. During Vance’s senate primary campaign, he made it clear that while he would accept Trump’s endorsement, he wasn’t going to beg for it like others. That was the clincher.
Vance has broken with Trump on some of the ME goings on and I think Vance is the reason Trump has pulled some punches. Vance was the darling of everyone after his book came out. Once he became a conspicuous Republican, and then joined the Trump ticket, people abandoned him in droves. Others changed more than Vance did. I think Vance would be an outstanding candidate.
@co-hoosier i like vance and would vote for him. but people are not happy. if the left is a moron like aoc are someone totally worthless like newsom or stay at home pete vance will just shred them. but if they somehow manage to find a way to get a gov that is popular vance will have to find a way to argue that these stupid tariffs, stupid war, and exorbitant prices that were the very reason he was elected to fix aren't his doing. cruz would have an easier job of that. vance is attached to a really shitty term.
@co-hoosier Vance would be a very good President, I think. With him being the odds on favorite to be the GOP candidate in 28... I'm focusing on what the Dems can do, to help improve the process, the climate, the race, the down ballot races, etc... But also what Vance can do, between now and POTUS primary season a year and a half from now... Because if Vance stays lock step with Trump, the toxicity will continue to increase... despite what you say, he's remained very closely aligned with Trump. In some ways that's good, it shows he's loyal, and he knows the proper chain of command. But, he knew it once, and I'm sure he knows it now, Trump is bad news. The longer he continues staying aligned with him, the harder its going to make his 28' campaign. And the more toxic its going to make the race and the climate.
I suspect though that Vance, and the GOP leaders, know that the most likely way for Vance to win in 28, is him running against someone like AOC or Harris. And a good way to ensure that happens, is continue, if not ramp up, the rhetoric and Trump like approach. That will sufficiently fire up the Dems, and increase the chances they'll step on their peters again, and nominate a lightning rod, anti Trump, candidate. Staying in lock step with Trump will also keep him in MAGA's good graces... so, practically, he's not going to deviate much from Trump. And that's going to be a challenge for him, if he's any sort of level headed person. Because Trumps final 2 years are going to be an absolute shit show.
Its a tough spot. A deep breath by the Dems, and getting behind one of the Governors I listed. Is what's best for the entire country. So I'm sure it won't happen. And I'm sure Vance will do everything in his power to ensure it doesn't happen.
And for what its worth... I'm not saying we need a POTUS that tries to unite the parties. I'm saying we need a POTUS that is willing, and able, to find little factions of the opposing party, to get things done and pushed through Congress. Its how these Governors thrive in purple states. Its what we need, right now.
despite what you say, he's remained very closely aligned with Trump.
Of course he has; publicly. Vance is Trump’s VP. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. The rumors are already swirling about Vance’s disagreement with some of Trump’s war.
Because if Vance stays lock step with Trump, the toxicity will continue to increase
This is a problem . But it’s not Trumps problem. Neither does Vance cause the problem. Trump has a lot of good ideas, many of which should be nonpartisan. For example, rooting out fraud has now became a MAGA issue for many because of this toxicity. That’s just stupid. Vance is a very smart guy. Hopefully he can figure out a way to advance these kinds of initiatives without the anti-MAGA people going ballistic.
@unclemark Huh? GOP side? Only reason I didn't list him is Utah is pretty deep, Red. But I think he'd probably do very well. He just doesn't really have to consider much of anything from the Dem side, being the Governor of Utah... to be effective and do his job. The others I listed do... which I think is an important distinction, for what we're facing, right now.
Fair point. I posted after watching him on CSPAN this weekend (he's got a book out). He probably wouldn't be my choice policy-wise, but the kind of character, integrity, and humility he showed was impressive. Very much so.
He also claims in no uncertain terms that he's not running. Another feather in his cap. We need to go back to conventions drafting people.
Trump and vicariously Vance are getting blamed for things they have no control over. Take the price if diesel fuel. Russia was a huge producer and exported a lot of diesel fuel to the rest of the world. Ukraine is systematically destroying Russian ability to produce it. Trump gets blamed for the resulting higher prices.
@iunorth Just recentLy read Regime Change. Supposedly Trump asks people all the time who they like better Rubio or Vance as next nominee. Supposedly he likes Marco a lot better personally. Don’t think Trump would have any problem throwing Vance under the bus, but I think GOP nominee will be whoever Trump endorses.
Trump said he'd end that war on day one, within 24 hours of being inaugurated. +60 times during the 23-24 campaign season he said this. It was a major portion of his stump. And now his intelligence agencies are giving Ukraine info on Russian fuel depot and refinery locations. So yeah...Trump and vicariously Vance are getting blamed for things they have no control over. Take the price if diesel fuel. Russia was a huge producer and exported a lot of diesel fuel to the rest of the world. Ukraine is systematically destroying Russian ability to produce it. Trump gets blamed for the resulting higher prices.
Trump is a fuck up. Stop making excuses for him.
Hes not running, but has a book out? That doesn’t add up.
And he acknowledged that.
His book is about civility, both political and generally. You can see the interview on C-SPAN online. His primary target is social media.
https://www.c-span.org/program/book-tv/off-ramp/685301
@unclemark I heard his interview on one of the NPR shows. I thought he did well. I also thought the host was really unfair. Basically just found half a dozen different ways to say, "Yeah, but how can you justify saying all this stuff if you don't hate Trump?"