No one plays the victim more than MAGA. It’s constant grievance and I just don’t like it at all. I don’t relate. It starts with our President and he’s tapped into those who feel like the victims in our party. Bunch of whining snowflakes.
This is a crock. Yes, all of us can be victims based on circumstances over which we have no control. Exploiting the victim class, making them believe they are helpless, and turning them into a political voting block is different and it ain’t MAGA. It’s the democrat socialist playbook.
Do you deny the vile ignorance? You believe the 2020 election was stolen? Do you believe it when the President tells you lies every day? Do you think Democrats are ENEMIES like terrorists and communists rather than fellow Americans who are misguided on politics? Do you denigrate everyone that you disagree with as "the worst ever" or a "very bad person?"
This is all 100% your opinion. You have concluded your opinion is the only correct one. I’ve tried to engage you in a deeper level and I have failed every time.
FWIW, I believe the direct and circumstantial evidence that to 2020 election was rigged is overwhelming. Like Bill Barr, I also believe there is no evidence that this changed the result.
@co-hoosier MAGA/Trump is no different in exploiting the grievance laden masses. You have a serious blind spot here.
Rigged how? My opinion isn’t always correct, but those were questions, not opinions. I certainly do have opinions about the answers. You didn't answer them other than mealy mouthing the second question. My opinion is that anyone that thinks the 2020 election was stolen is a moron. I think that's objectively true too.Do you deny the vile ignorance? You believe the 2020 election was stolen? Do you believe it when the President tells you lies every day? Do you think Democrats are ENEMIES like terrorists and communists rather than fellow Americans who are misguided on politics? Do you denigrate everyone that you disagree with as "the worst ever" or a "very bad person?"
This is all 100% your opinion. You have concluded your opinion is the only correct one. I’ve tried to engage you in a deeper level and I have failed every time.
FWIW, I believe the direct and circumstantial evidence that to 2020 election was rigged is overwhelming. Like Bill Barr, I also believe there is no evidence that this changed the result.
The news breaking today regarding Senators Chuck Grassley and Ron Johnson releasing newly obtained DOJ documents has completely shifted this narrative. Whether Jack Smith legally committed perjury is a complex question, but the newly surfaced evidence creates a massive, undeniable contradiction with his previous testimony.
Here is the breakdown of why this is exploding right now and what it means legally.
## The Contradiction
When Jack Smith testified before Congress, he was asked under oath whether his team had sought or reviewed the *contents* of lawmakers' text messages.
* **What Jack Smith Testified:** He stated that his investigators had obtained "just toll records" (metadata like timestamps, call logs, and phone numbers). When asked explicitly if those records included text-message content, he answered, **"No."**
* **What the New Documents Show:** Internal DOJ emails and logs released today show that Smith’s team subpoenaed the National Archives (NARA) for the backup records of devices used by Donald Trump and top White House aides. Because 44 members of Congress had texted those White House officials, **Smith's team received and downloaded spreadsheets containing the actual text message content** of those lawmakers, bypassing the internal DOJ "Filter Team" meant to screen them out.
According to the logs, one of Smith’s lead prosecutors, Thomas Windom, downloaded the text spreadsheets at 12:45 PM on August 21, 2023, and was sharing specific message contents with colleagues just 17 minutes later.
## Why Establishing Perjury is Difficult
To prove perjury under federal law (18\text{ U.S.C. }\S\text{ 1621}), a prosecutor must prove three strict elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1. The statement was made under oath and was literally false.
2. The statement was material to the investigation.
3. The person **knowingly and willfully** lied—meaning they had the specific intent to deceive.
If this ever goes to a courtroom, the entire case will hinge on "intent" and how the specific questions were phrased. Smith's defense would likely rely on legal parsing:
### 1. The "Target" Defense
Smith's team did not subpoena the *senators'* phones directly; they subpoenaed *White House* phone data from the National Archives. Smith could argue that when he testified his office didn't "seek a warrant for the contents of lawmakers' text messages," he was answering literally—they sought *Trump's* and *Meadows's* logs, and the lawmakers' messages just happened to be swept up as the other half of those conversations.
### 2. The "Faulty Memory" or Lack of Personal Knowledge Defense
Perjury requires proving the witness *knew* the statement was false the exact second they said it. Smith was the head of a massive Special Counsel office with dozens of attorneys handling millions of pages of discovery. His defense would likely argue that while his subordinates downloaded and viewed the NARA texts, Smith himself either wasn't briefed on that specific data dump or simply forgot the technical distinction between the third-party carrier toll records and the NARA spreadsheets during his intense congressional grilling.
## What Happens Next?
Whether a jury would buy those defenses is a separate issue, but the political and legal fallout is real. Senator Grassley has already stated he intends to haul Jack Smith back before the Senate Judiciary Committee to hold him accountable for the discrepancy.
With the incoming Trump administration appointing a new DOJ leadership team, a formal criminal investigation into Jack Smith for perjury or making false statements to Congress (18\text{ U.S.C. }\S\text{ 1001}) is highly likely.
Do you need a search warrant to read the actual text messages?
FWIW, I believe the direct and circumstantial evidence that to 2020 election was rigged is overwhelming. Like Bill Barr, I also believe there is no evidence that this changed the result.
Rigged how and by whom?
@co-hoosier So in 2020 with Republicans in charge of the DOJ and FBI, someone rigged the system against Republicans. But in 2016 and 2024, with Democrats in charge, those same powers couldn't rig the system against Trump? Is that really the argument?
FWIW, I believe the direct and circumstantial evidence that to 2020 election was rigged is overwhelming. Like Bill Barr, I also believe there is no evidence that this changed the result.
Rigged how and by whom?
There is no legitimate answer to that. If there was evidence that the 2020 election was rigged, they would have found something to prove it. Mike Lindell, Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani and others led a charge where millions of dollars was spent to uncover even the slightest proof of the election being rigged. It destroyed all their careers and reputations. They all lost in court multiple times over.
The 2020 election was not rigged. I share Aloha's opinion that anyone that believes so is a moron.
FWIW, I believe the direct and circumstantial evidence that to 2020 election was rigged is overwhelming. Like Bill Barr, I also believe there is no evidence that this changed the result.
Rigged how and by whom?
By the courts, the governors, secretaries of state, etc. Per the constitution, the time place and manner of voting is to be determined by the state legislatures. In many states the governors unconstitutionally made these changes.
In some states the legally passed laws simply weren't followed. In Wisconsin you had to be "indefinitely confined" to legally vote by mail. But they allowed almost everyone to illegally vote by mail.
In states that had legal mail in balloting they were required to conduct a signature check to confirm that the signature on the ballot matched the voter registration card. That never happened. They looked for an X or horizontal line in the box maybe without any check for a match. We know due to the rejection rates that were essentially zero and from Ward v Jackson the only time a real signature check was done and the Dems own handwriting expert couldn't verify enough signatures in the sample that were almost 10 times Bidens margin of victory in Arizona.
Trump only filed one lawsuit himself and that was in Georgia. The others weren't filed by Trump and were dismissed due to lack of standing and had nothing to.do with the merits. For that GA case the courts were required by law to give Ttump a hearing. They refused to follow the law and do so and Trump withdrew that suit after J6 as it was then moot.
We could go on forever.
LOL! We already knew you were a moron. You didn’t have to write a bunch of debunked nonsense to prove it.FWIW, I believe the direct and circumstantial evidence that to 2020 election was rigged is overwhelming. Like Bill Barr, I also believe there is no evidence that this changed the result.
Rigged how and by whom?
By the courts, the governors, secretaries of state, etc. Per the constitution, the time place and manner of voting is to be determined by the state legislatures. In many states the governors unconstitutionally made these changes.
In some states the legally passed laws simply weren't followed. In Wisconsin you had to be "indefinitely confined" to legally vote by mail. But they allowed almost everyone to illegally vote by mail.
In states that had legal mail in balloting they were required to conduct a signature check to confirm that the signature on the ballot matched the voter registration card. That never happened. They looked for an X or horizontal line in the box maybe without any check for a match. We know due to the rejection rates that were essentially zero and from Ward v Jackson the only time a real signature check was done and the Dems own handwriting expert couldn't verify enough signatures in the sample that were almost 10 times Bidens margin of victory in Arizona.
Trump only filed one lawsuit himself and that was in Georgia. The others weren't filed by Trump and were dismissed due to lack of standing and had nothing to.do with the merits. For that GA case the courts were required by law to give Ttump a hearing. They refused to follow the law and do so and Trump withdrew that suit after J6 as it was then moot.
We could go on forever.
No one plays the victim more than MAGA. It’s constant grievance and I just don’t like it at all. I don’t relate. It starts with our President and he’s tapped into those who feel like the victims in our party. Bunch of whining snowflakes.
This is a crock. Yes, all of us can be victims based on circumstances over which we have no control. Exploiting the victim class, making them believe they are helpless, and turning them into a political voting block is different and it ain’t MAGA. It’s the democrat socialist playbook.
Nah, it's both. It's a core feature of populism. MAGA and DSA play up different grievances, often (but by no means always) to different demographics, but it's all the same game. "It's not your fault, it's the fault of X, and I'm going to do something about it so you can get your hard-earned reward." That was the MAGA message, and right now, it's also the message of the left.
The fact that so many of you think that they are somehow meaningfully different is a big reason the GOP is going to get smoked this fall.
There is no legitimate answer to that. If there was evidence that the 2020 election was rigged, they would have found something to prove it. Mike Lindell, Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani and others led a charge where millions of dollars was spent to uncover even the slightest proof of the election being rigged. It destroyed all their careers and reputations. They all lost in court multiple times over.
The 2020 election was not rigged. I share Aloha's opinion that anyone that believes so is a moron.
This is a pretty ignorant and superficial take. The rigging happened in the months before Election Day with all the Marc Elias litigation and Covid “emergency “ alterations to voting processes. Marc Elias was genius and the Republicans had no idea what was happening.
If we have learned one thing in the 21st century, we have learned that as far as government processes, programs, benefits, and activities is concerned, if cheating can happen, cheating will happen. Maybe you think elections are an exception, but I don’t. Everything that changed in the run-up to the 2020 election made cheating easier, not harder.
Then we have the Hunter laptop mess that happened in plain sight, rigging at many different government and non government levels.
The post election litigation you pointed out was absolutely a waste of time. We simply don’t have the legal infrastructure to do anything about elections after the fact, the timelines just don’t work.
All that being said, we also have no way to know if the rigging made a difference. That is why I accept the results, why I think the Trump reforms are so important, and why Democrats so steadfastly oppose reforms.
This is a pretty ignorant and superficial take. The rigging happened in the months before Election Day with all the Marc Elias litigation and Covid “emergency “ alterations to voting processes. Marc Elias was genius and the Republicans had no idea what was happening.
Sounds like Trump should hire you to represent his 2020 rigged election case because you’re the only one who might to be able prove the election was rigged.
All those other lawyers and politicians and all that money spent couldn’t come up with anything.
@dbmhoosier I think this segment where JD admits the administration mishandled the Epstein files might be more interesting to his boss: