You have often, and correctly, said military officers should not use their military status for political purposes. Yet, isn’t that what Kelly did when he appeared in that ad and invoked his military status as an exclamation point?
Should that be condoned?
I've not "condoned it." I've criticized what Kelly and the other five did. I don't think they should have done it, and I explained why I don't think they should have done it. But they're Congress people doing political things and there was absolutely nothing illegal about what they did. Kelly didn't do what he did in his military capacity, he's a Senator. What the President and Hegseth have done by going after Kelly has only increased Kelly's profile and popularity (barring a great Republican opponent, MAGA won't get it done, and a minor miracle he'll easily win reelection) it will ultimately reduce the President's and Hegseth's popularity. The only smart move they had was a brief criticism and to move on.
@aloha-hoosier Are the senators qualified? Your party nominated a VP who was in office for historic fraud. I have little faith in any of the gov types. I prefer outsiders.
My party nominated a mentally unstable asshole for President. People really are stupid.
As for Hegseth, the senior ranks think he’s a totally unqualified asshole who cannot be trusted. This is a fact.
Trump 2 is the best President since Reagan. He's trying to make a run at Teddy Rosevelt. Who are these losers that don't like Hegseth? The guy drinks a 6 pack at breakfast and catches a Narco Terrorist by dinner.
@aloha-hoosier Are the senators qualified? Your party nominated a VP who was in office for historic fraud. I have little faith in any of the gov types. I prefer outsiders.
My party nominated a mentally unstable asshole for President. People really are stupid.
As for Hegseth, the senior ranks think he’s a totally unqualified asshole who cannot be trusted. This is a fact.
Trump 2 is the best President since Reagan. He's trying to make a run at Teddy Rosevelt. Who are these losers that don't like Hegseth? The guy drinks a 6 pack at breakfast and catches a Narco Terrorist by dinner.
"The senior Ranks" is his way to say the exact same thing as Zeke "My 1 million friends"... It's BS.
If men were any more stupid, we would have breed for the extinction of women. Proof yet again that WE are the best thing they have going for them.
@aloha-hoosier Are the senators qualified? Your party nominated a VP who was in office for historic fraud. I have little faith in any of the gov types. I prefer outsiders.
My party nominated a mentally unstable asshole for President. People really are stupid.
As for Hegseth, the senior ranks think he’s a totally unqualified asshole who cannot be trusted. This is a fact.
Trump 2 is the best President since Reagan. He's trying to make a run at Teddy Rosevelt. Who are these losers that don't like Hegseth? The guy drinks a 6 pack at breakfast and catches a Narco Terrorist by dinner.
"The senior Ranks" is his way to say the exact same thing as Zeke "My 1 million friends"... It's BS.
It’s a fact. They consider him an unqualified joke. You can believe it or not. I don’t care.
@aloha-hoosier Are the senators qualified? Your party nominated a VP who was in office for historic fraud. I have little faith in any of the gov types. I prefer outsiders.
My party nominated a mentally unstable asshole for President. People really are stupid.
As for Hegseth, the senior ranks think he’s a totally unqualified asshole who cannot be trusted. This is a fact.
Trump 2 is the best President since Reagan. He's trying to make a run at Teddy Rosevelt. Who are these losers that don't like Hegseth? The guy drinks a 6 pack at breakfast and catches a Narco Terrorist by dinner.
"The senior Ranks" is his way to say the exact same thing as Zeke "My 1 million friends"... It's BS.
It’s a fact. They consider him an unqualified joke. You can believe it or not. I don’t care.
@aloha-hoosier Are the senators qualified? Your party nominated a VP who was in office for historic fraud. I have little faith in any of the gov types. I prefer outsiders.
My party nominated a mentally unstable asshole for President. People really are stupid.
As for Hegseth, the senior ranks think he’s a totally unqualified asshole who cannot be trusted. This is a fact.
Trump 2 is the best President since Reagan. He's trying to make a run at Teddy Rosevelt. Who are these losers that don't like Hegseth? The guy drinks a 6 pack at breakfast and catches a Narco Terrorist by dinner.
"The senior Ranks" is his way to say the exact same thing as Zeke "My 1 million friends"... It's BS.
It’s a fact. They consider him an unqualified joke. You can believe it or not. I don’t care.
Again, don’t care, but I’ll be visiting some senior officers and civilians in DC this month. Working a project with a contractor.
It’s not criminal. Hegseth’s pettiness is off the charts.
In a “conduct unbecoming” case, is criminality the question? Honest question, I don’t know.
Hard to imagine more irresponsible non-criminal conduct.
People (ignorant people) were claiming it was sedition at minimum and possibly treason. Those were ridiculous assertions. If they found any crimes in that political video they could have prosecuted him under the UCMJ (though that would have been unprecedented) instead Hegseth is issuing an administrative letter of censure as “punishment.” Commanders go the administrative route when advised there is no case to try but the Commander wants to make it clear in writing that he’s still unhappy. There is no finding of guilt. There is no criminal conviction. In this case it’s clearly a Hegseth Hissy Fit. There was never a case and if Hegseth was a qualified leader or smart, he would have dropped this nonsense after the initial criticism of the six. He’s obviously an extremely insecure and petty man. His leadership skills seem nonexistent. He can never get any respect back at this point.
Another procedural thing after reviewing some of my military legal materials - this should be done by the SecNav rather than SecDef. It's not clear if this is Hegseth ordering SecNav to eventually issue the Letter of Censure or if Hegseth is just planning to do it himself. The Letter won't officially be issued until after a 30-day review period during which Kelly will present his side of this. I expect Kelly will easily win and the letter won't be issued, but if it is issued and it's issued by Hegseth that creates additional grounds for having it tossed and if Hegseth orders SecNav to do it, there will be glaring command influence issues which could also get it tossed. I'm interested in watching this progress. My prediction is there will never be a letter issued and there will never be a reduction in rank. I can't see a board of flag officers (they all have to be senior to Kelly) going along with this nonsense.
Yes, conduct unbecoming can result in a conviction at Court-Martial, though it’s not typically the primary charge. Can be though. Typically, it would be addressed at Non-Judicial Punishment proceedings.
This post was modified 4 months ago 3 times by Aloha Hoosier
It's comes from the UCMJ which says we're to follow all lawful orders and are to disobey all unlawful orders.
Who decides what is lawful and unlawful? There are situations where I think it would be obvious where the order falls but there are situations where it wouldn't be obvious. I would assume that the people giving the orders probably have more info than the ones that suppose to carry the order out.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who know binary and those who don't.
It's comes from the UCMJ which says we're to follow all lawful orders and are to disobey all unlawful orders.
Who decides what is lawful and unlawful? There are situations where I think it would be obvious where the order falls but there are situations where it wouldn't be obvious. I would assume that the people giving the orders probably have more info than the ones that suppose to carry the order out.
Orders are to be presumed legal except when clearly not, if it's a close call we consult with the JAGs whose job is to advise in these matters. Examples given in the manuals include an order to kill unarmed combatants after they've surrendered. A specific one also is it would be unlawful to give an order (or to obey the order) to kill a "shipwrecked" individual. Usually, officers will be making the decision, but junior person could (and should) disobey my order, for example, to kill a shipwrecked survivor of a boat we'd just destroyed or disabled. Even if a person disobeys what ultimately is ruled an unlawful order that person will likely be treated as if he disobeyed a lawful order - until proven that it was unlawful. There are consequences, sometimes for even doing the right thing.
Military personnel are taught Article 92 of the UCMJ about duty to obey lawful orders and disobey unlawful orders from accession training and periodically throughout their careers. It isn't new and we're not going to have 1.3 million military personnel questioning every order they're given. That hasn't happened and will not happen.
This post was modified 4 months ago by Aloha Hoosier
Good summary from a Navy perspective. It’s very doubtful that the rank reduction from Hegseth’s Hissy Fit will ever happen and that his Letter of Censure means zip for a retired officer (plus that letter will be immediately pulled soon as a sane SecDef takes over).
We've stopped killing shipwrecked survivors after the September 2nd attack and instead have been rescuing them or trying to rescue them. The reason? Well, it's a clear war crime, if at war, and murder if not, to kill shipwrecked survivors.
