Just a little vignette to add to the anti trans sentiment that permeates this board. Some of you may have read about the Purdue student who committed suicide ( bag over his head) in the Physics building two weeks ago. I knew his parents a little, but not him. I’ll post later a little bit from what his minister said at his service. But he left a journal. In it, he said that the only hope for trans people is to get help early in their life. His parents were very supportive and knew of his condition fairly early , but did not want treatment until he was an adult. Actually he probably couldn’t have received treatment in Indiana.
I understand the issue about sports. I understand the issue that kids are kids and can change their mind on a dime. I’m just here to remind you that everything isn’t black and white and these are real people too.
What would constitute help in actual practice, according to him or you or anyone?Just a little vignette to add to the anti trans sentiment that permeates this board. Some of you may have read about the Purdue student who committed suicide ( bag over his head) in the Physics building two weeks ago. I knew his parents a little, but not him. I’ll post later a little bit from what his minister said at his service. But he left a journal. In it, he said that the only hope for trans people is to get help early in their life. His parents were very supportive and knew of his condition fairly early , but did not want treatment until he was an adult. Actually he probably couldn’t have received treatment in Indiana.
I understand the issue about sports. I understand the issue that kids are kids and can change their mind on a dime. I’m just here to remind you that everything isn’t black and white and these are real people too.
@hhlurker I know he had counseling, so I assume he was wanting hormone treatment.
@hhlurker I know he had counseling, so I assume he was wanting hormone treatment.
there have been may that underwent that treatment and ending up doing the same afterwards. It’s a serious mental illness and until people treat it as such and stop normalizing it, I don’t see anything changing.
@hhlurker I know he had counseling, so I assume he was wanting hormone treatment.
there have been may that underwent that treatment and ending up doing the same afterwards. It’s a serious mental illness and until people treat it as such and stop normalizing it, I don’t see anything changing.
Obligatory I Am Not A Doctor, but my understanding is...
I believe what you are saying is that you think gender-affirming care is the wrong kind of treatment, and that all youth experiencing gender dysphoria should instead be given psychotherapy that seeks to resolve this dysphoria by changing their identity to match their biological sex.
The thing is, though, it's not like that hasn't been tried. Up until rather recently, gender-affirming treatment was the minority. The main reason it has become the norm is because it has been associated with better mental health outcomes*, whereas traditional psychotherapy didn't seem to confer any benefits at all.
...anyway, whatever the case is medically, I think medical or psychological treatments should be based on what is most efficacious, not what best fits our own societal comfort levels. And this can absolutely be divorced from all the other issues that surround transgender identity in wider society. We can support people with trans identities without surrendering women-only spaces that have been constructed over the years for very good reasons. It's okay to say on the one hand that a trans woman has every right to live life as a woman, if that's what makes her happy, but on the other hand that, regardless, she doesn't get to use the same bathroom as my cisgendered daughter and the rest of the cheerleading team. Holding those two views isn't contradictory and shouldn't be labeled as transphobic.
*Edited to add: I should have noted here, as Brad correctly reminded us, that the evidence for better mental health outcomes from gender-affirming care has been shown to be very weakly supported, if at all, by mostly lackluster research. More accurate would be to say that we moved toward the current model because it appeared that it was more efficacious, but now we really don't know for sure.
@hhlurker I know he had counseling, so I assume he was wanting hormone treatment.
there have been may that underwent that treatment and ending up doing the same afterwards. It’s a serious mental illness and until people treat it as such and stop normalizing it, I don’t see anything changing.
Obligatory I Am Not A Doctor, but my understanding is...
I believe what you are saying is that you think gender-affirming care is the wrong kind of treatment, and that all youth experiencing gender dysphoria should instead be given psychotherapy that seeks to resolve this dysphoria by changing their identity to match their biological sex.
The thing is, though, it's not like that hasn't been tried. Up until rather recently, gender-affirming treatment was the minority. The main reason it has become the norm is because it has been associated with better mental health outcomes, whereas traditional psychotherapy didn't seem to confer any benefits at all.
...anyway, whatever the case is medically, I think medical or psychological treatments should be based on what is most efficacious, not what best fits our own societal comfort levels. And this can absolutely be divorced from all the other issues that surround transgender identity in wider society. We can support people with trans identities without surrendering women-only spaces that have been constructed over the years for very good reasons. It's okay to say on the one hand that a trans woman has every right to live life as a woman, if that's what makes her happy, but on the other hand that, regardless, she doesn't get to use the same bathroom as my cisgendered daughter and the rest of the cheerleading team. Holding those two views isn't contradictory and shouldn't be labeled as transphobic.
And the taxpayers shouldn’t foot the bill for this persons “desire”
@spartans9312 why not? If they are indeed ill, why should it be different than any other illness?
https://swimsuit.si.com/models/valentina-sampaio Isn’t it going to be weird having her in the men’s restroom/locker room?
We had a whole discussion about this. That research has been contradicted by better research. Look up the Cass review from 2024.@jdb https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/hormone-therapy-linked-lower-suicide-risk-trans-youths-study-finds-rcna8617/p >
We had a whole discussion about this. That research has been contradicted by better research. Look up the Cass review from 2024.@jdb https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/hormone-therapy-linked-lower-suicide-risk-trans-youths-study-finds-rcna8617/p >
Technical correction: The Cass Review didn't contradict prior research. Rather, it demonstrated that most of it wasn't very good. There's an important world of difference between "the conclusions of the research were wrong" and "the conclusions of the research cannot be adequately supported."
Society shouldn’t legislate against families seeking mental health treatment. Families should seek workable treatment until they find it.
Goat is right, mental health needs have nothing to do with where a person craps and pees. Likewise not whether or not one gets to participate in sports of the opposite biological sex.
Not just "wasn't very good," but actually hid bad outcomes and bad health results. This wasn't just negligence:We had a whole discussion about this. That research has been contradicted by better research. Look up the Cass review from 2024.@jdb https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/hormone-therapy-linked-lower-suicide-risk-trans-youths-study-finds-rcna8617/p >
Technical correction: The Cass Review didn't contradict prior research. Rather, it demonstrated that most of it wasn't very good. There's an important world of difference between "the conclusions of the research were wrong" and "the conclusions of the research cannot be adequately supported."
The approach to pediatric gender distress currently favored in the U.S., which involves the provision of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones sometimes followed by surgery, was rapidly adopted internationally largely on the basis of a Dutch experiment comprised of just 70 adolescents who had been gender nonconforming since early childhood. The vast majority of these patients (62 out of 70) reported being exclusively same-sex attracted (gay).
During the study, a patient died of surgical complications due to having been given puberty blockers years earlier; some developed diabetes and were excluded from final data analysis; others were lost to follow up. The remaining 55 patients underwent surgical transition upon reaching legal adulthood. All were rendered sterile. In short, the medical practice now known euphemistically as pediatric "gender affirming care" is based on methodologically weak research that sterilized a group of gay or bisexual youth and left one of them dead.
Since then, thousands of well-meaning parents have been led to believe that medicalization is necessary for their children’s well-being. What they may not know is that some leading clinician-researchers have buried unfavorable research and have minimized concerning findings (including completed suicides in minors started on hormones).
In 2021, a prominent clinician told the media and other clinicians that her male patients who were puberty-blocked early never developed the ability to experience sexual pleasure. A year later, her organization, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, released guidelines that recommend early use of puberty blockers (and which removed age limits—even for most surgeries—due to political pressure). The risk of lifelong sexual dysfunction was left unmentioned.
I mourn the boy's passing and have a great deal of sympathy for his parents. But given the current state of the data, I think it's "anti trans" to allow children to undergo this care that has euphemistically been called "gender affirming care." In fact, from the data, it's also pretty damn "anti-homosexual."Just a little vignette to add to the anti trans sentiment that permeates this board. Some of you may have read about the Purdue student who committed suicide ( bag over his head) in the Physics building two weeks ago. I knew his parents a little, but not him. I’ll post later a little bit from what his minister said at his service. But he left a journal. In it, he said that the only hope for trans people is to get help early in their life. His parents were very supportive and knew of his condition fairly early , but did not want treatment until he was an adult. Actually he probably couldn’t have received treatment in Indiana.
I understand the issue about sports. I understand the issue that kids are kids and can change their mind on a dime. I’m just here to remind you that everything isn’t black and white and these are real people too.
Not just "wasn't very good," but actually hid bad outcomes and bad health results. This wasn't just negligence:We had a whole discussion about this. That research has been contradicted by better research. Look up the Cass review from 2024.@jdb https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/hormone-therapy-linked-lower-suicide-risk-trans-youths-study-finds-rcna8617/p >
Technical correction: The Cass Review didn't contradict prior research. Rather, it demonstrated that most of it wasn't very good. There's an important world of difference between "the conclusions of the research were wrong" and "the conclusions of the research cannot be adequately supported."
The approach to pediatric gender distress currently favored in the U.S., which involves the provision of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones sometimes followed by surgery, was rapidly adopted internationally largely on the basis of a Dutch experiment comprised of just 70 adolescents who had been gender nonconforming since early childhood. The vast majority of these patients (62 out of 70) reported being exclusively same-sex attracted (gay).
During the study, a patient died of surgical complications due to having been given puberty blockers years earlier; some developed diabetes and were excluded from final data analysis; others were lost to follow up. The remaining 55 patients underwent surgical transition upon reaching legal adulthood. All were rendered sterile. In short, the medical practice now known euphemistically as pediatric "gender affirming care" is based on methodologically weak research that sterilized a group of gay or bisexual youth and left one of them dead.
Since then, thousands of well-meaning parents have been led to believe that medicalization is necessary for their children’s well-being. What they may not know is that some leading clinician-researchers have buried unfavorable research and have minimized concerning findings (including completed suicides in minors started on hormones).
In 2021, a prominent clinician told the media and other clinicians that her male patients who were puberty-blocked early never developed the ability to experience sexual pleasure. A year later, her organization, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, released guidelines that recommend early use of puberty blockers (and which removed age limits—even for most surgeries—due to political pressure). The risk of lifelong sexual dysfunction was left unmentioned.
I don't think any of that was in the Cass Review. I'm not saying it isn't true. But I think you are reproducing content here that went beyond what the Review actually found. I think. Not an expert, again. I could be misunderstanding.