She is one of the four major nominees that should not have been confirmed.Don’t listen to anything Blondi says. And she was corrected by Stephen Miller and Harmeet Dhillon.
I'm not playing games. A lot of people on the left believe that words=violence. A lot of people on the left think standard right wing fare is evil and =violence. A lot of people on the left believe Kirk and Trump were Nazis or fascists. So, a lot of people on the left think Kirk, in some part, deserved his death (whether that death be from a groyper or a lefty). Apparently, you agree with this line of argument.Matthew Dowd reacted in real time. His immediate reaction was to say Kirk was partly to blame for being "divisive." Dowd is relatively reasonable compared to the radicals. I think his response was much more indicative of what's going on on the left than the video clips of mentally ill people celebrating.@bradstevens when it comes to politics 1) we don’t want the same things and 2) we don’t like each other.
compromise going fwd will be very difficult
I think we’re kinda playing word games here. We all seem to agree that over-the-top partisan rhetoric is part of what’s triggering these deranged dudes but it’s out of bounds to draw a line straight back to source of said rhetoric?
If Kirk had been promoting violence against others for their speech, then fine, bring this up (even if it is in poor taste in the immediate aftermath). But that's not what he ever did. He pretty explicitly said the opposite, as a matter of fact.
The discouraging thing is that Kirk was basically a conservative Christian. Those were almost exclusively his views, the way he lived.
To see the sheer number of people even in my life who equate that to extremism is really disturbing.
I actually had one exchange with a guy I know who claimed Kirk was using the open debate excuse as a means of spreading Nazi ideology. I’m sorry, what? What do you even say to that? How does that make any sense at all?
This whole thing has been very very sad. I’m really trying to understand why it’s affected me so much.
It wouldn’t matter if you did.Another example (like anti-vax and stolen election conspiracy theories) of ideas or things that used to be predominately leftwing. Lefties have long called for hate speech laws and prosecution. In addition to the fact that it violates our history of protected free speech, who will decide what is hate speech and what isn't?https://twitter.com/ShadowofEzra/status/1967787454158844261
Who decides what is constituted as hate speech? This is really dangerous. IMO.
Courts will decide, but for the most part they already have, and 99.99999% of the time, hate speech is indeed free speech. Crossing into the exception for inciting violence is very difficult.
Somebody better tell this guy...
https://deadline.com/2025/09/trump-jon-karl-abc-hate-speech-pam-bondi-1236545603/
Okay.
.
I'm not playing games. A lot of people on the left believe that words=violence. A lot of people on the left think standard right wing fare is evil and =violence. A lot of people on the left believe Kirk and Trump were Nazis or fascists. So, a lot of people on the left think Kirk, in some part, deserved his death (whether that death be from a groyper or a lefty). Apparently, you agree with this line of argument.Matthew Dowd reacted in real time. His immediate reaction was to say Kirk was partly to blame for being "divisive." Dowd is relatively reasonable compared to the radicals. I think his response was much more indicative of what's going on on the left than the video clips of mentally ill people celebrating.@bradstevens when it comes to politics 1) we don’t want the same things and 2) we don’t like each other.
compromise going fwd will be very difficult
I think we’re kinda playing word games here. We all seem to agree that over-the-top partisan rhetoric is part of what’s triggering these deranged dudes but it’s out of bounds to draw a line straight back to source of said rhetoric?
If Kirk had been promoting violence against others for their speech, then fine, bring this up (even if it is in poor taste in the immediate aftermath). But that's not what he ever did. He pretty explicitly said the opposite, as a matter of fact.
The discouraging thing is that Kirk was basically a conservative Christian. Those were almost exclusively his views, the way he lived.
To see the sheer number of people even in my life who equate that to extremism is really disturbing.
I actually had one exchange with a guy I know who claimed Kirk was using the open debate excuse as a means of spreading Nazi ideology. I’m sorry, what? What do you even say to that? How does that make any sense at all?
This whole thing has been very very sad. I’m really trying to understand why it’s affected me so much.
reddit is really disappointing. I know it’s not a general representation of the left but the ability to say more than 140 characters at a time is allowing lefties to really lean into explaining themselves. I agree Hoops. Kirk was your run of the mill conservative Christian that would have been mainstream Republican 20 years ago.
the fascist/nazi shit is rampant. Out of context quotes masquerading as truth. It’s vile. And while I don’t agree with @mcm666 that this is a true representation of the Dem party, and that similar sentiments exist on the Right, this zero sum mentality by the far left (and especially youths) is disturbing.
and, like you I suspect, it’s hitting me hard not because of their views on Kirk. It’s the complete lack of sympathy and the belief that he somehow “earned” his assassination because of his views (they never say deserve because they know that’s taboo)
Dave Smith is right...Kirk wasn't "far-right"...
And because they wouldn’t accept the open hand (Kirk), now it’s time to go back into the drawer and put on the brass knuckles.
https://twitter.com/Nero/status/1965898354153632026
I'm not playing games. A lot of people on the left believe that words=violence. A lot of people on the left think standard right wing fare is evil and =violence. A lot of people on the left believe Kirk and Trump were Nazis or fascists. So, a lot of people on the left think Kirk, in some part, deserved his death (whether that death be from a groyper or a lefty). Apparently, you agree with this line of argument.Matthew Dowd reacted in real time. His immediate reaction was to say Kirk was partly to blame for being "divisive." Dowd is relatively reasonable compared to the radicals. I think his response was much more indicative of what's going on on the left than the video clips of mentally ill people celebrating.@bradstevens when it comes to politics 1) we don’t want the same things and 2) we don’t like each other.
compromise going fwd will be very difficult
I think we’re kinda playing word games here. We all seem to agree that over-the-top partisan rhetoric is part of what’s triggering these deranged dudes but it’s out of bounds to draw a line straight back to source of said rhetoric?
If Kirk had been promoting violence against others for their speech, then fine, bring this up (even if it is in poor taste in the immediate aftermath). But that's not what he ever did. He pretty explicitly said the opposite, as a matter of fact.
The discouraging thing is that Kirk was basically a conservative Christian. Those were almost exclusively his views, the way he lived.
To see the sheer number of people even in my life who equate that to extremism is really disturbing.
I actually had one exchange with a guy I know who claimed Kirk was using the open debate excuse as a means of spreading Nazi ideology. I’m sorry, what? What do you even say to that? How does that make any sense at all?
This whole thing has been very very sad. I’m really trying to understand why it’s affected me so much.
reddit is really disappointing. I know it’s not a general representation of the left but the ability to say more than 140 characters at a time is allowing lefties to really lean into explaining themselves. I agree Hoops. Kirk was your run of the mill conservative Christian that would have been mainstream Republican 20 years ago.
the fascist/nazi shit is rampant. Out of context quotes masquerading as truth. It’s vile. And while I don’t agree with @mcm666 that this is a true representation of the Dem party, and that similar sentiments exist on the Right, this zero sum mentality by the far left (and especially youths) is disturbing.
and, like you I suspect, it’s hitting me hard not because of their views on Kirk. It’s the complete lack of sympathy and the belief that he somehow “earned” his assassination because of his views (they never say deserve because they know that’s taboo)
No, 20 years ago the right wasn’t leaning so heavily on conspiracy theories. The evangelicals were just getting going, hadn’t yet completed their melding of religion and politics. Mainstream GOP activists weren’t saying crazy shit like the Civil Rights act was the worst thing to happen to the US or that Jews are leading a global effort to replace white Christians.
None of this would have been considered run of the mill 20 years ago.
I'm not playing games. A lot of people on the left believe that words=violence. A lot of people on the left think standard right wing fare is evil and =violence. A lot of people on the left believe Kirk and Trump were Nazis or fascists. So, a lot of people on the left think Kirk, in some part, deserved his death (whether that death be from a groyper or a lefty). Apparently, you agree with this line of argument.Matthew Dowd reacted in real time. His immediate reaction was to say Kirk was partly to blame for being "divisive." Dowd is relatively reasonable compared to the radicals. I think his response was much more indicative of what's going on on the left than the video clips of mentally ill people celebrating.@bradstevens when it comes to politics 1) we don’t want the same things and 2) we don’t like each other.
compromise going fwd will be very difficult
I think we’re kinda playing word games here. We all seem to agree that over-the-top partisan rhetoric is part of what’s triggering these deranged dudes but it’s out of bounds to draw a line straight back to source of said rhetoric?
If Kirk had been promoting violence against others for their speech, then fine, bring this up (even if it is in poor taste in the immediate aftermath). But that's not what he ever did. He pretty explicitly said the opposite, as a matter of fact.
The discouraging thing is that Kirk was basically a conservative Christian. Those were almost exclusively his views, the way he lived.
To see the sheer number of people even in my life who equate that to extremism is really disturbing.
I actually had one exchange with a guy I know who claimed Kirk was using the open debate excuse as a means of spreading Nazi ideology. I’m sorry, what? What do you even say to that? How does that make any sense at all?
This whole thing has been very very sad. I’m really trying to understand why it’s affected me so much.
reddit is really disappointing. I know it’s not a general representation of the left but the ability to say more than 140 characters at a time is allowing lefties to really lean into explaining themselves. I agree Hoops. Kirk was your run of the mill conservative Christian that would have been mainstream Republican 20 years ago.
the fascist/nazi shit is rampant. Out of context quotes masquerading as truth. It’s vile. And while I don’t agree with @mcm666 that this is a true representation of the Dem party, and that similar sentiments exist on the Right, this zero sum mentality by the far left (and especially youths) is disturbing.
and, like you I suspect, it’s hitting me hard not because of their views on Kirk. It’s the complete lack of sympathy and the belief that he somehow “earned” his assassination because of his views (they never say deserve because they know that’s taboo)
No, 20 years ago the right wasn’t leaning so heavily on conspiracy theories. The evangelicals were just getting going, hadn’t yet completed their melding of religion and politics. Mainstream GOP activists weren’t saying crazy shit like the Civil Rights act was the worst thing to happen to the US or that Jews are leading a global effort to replace white Christians.
None of this would have been considered run of the mill 20 years ago.
I’m not talking about the right as a whole, although I do agree they have their share of problems. Mainly, the conspiracies and the antisemitism.
I’m talking about Kirk’s personal beliefs, that got him labeled an extremist. Those were mainstream Christian doctrine 20 years ago, and are still beliefs held by millions today.
That’s what got him killed. And that’s discouraging
@hoopsdoc those were Kirk’s beliefs. He shared them in public. Civil Rights Act, Replacement Theory, Great Covid Reset, 2020 Election Fraud — this was his brand.
I think you guys mean well, but the whitewashing we do for team has gotta stop.
No matter my thoughts and views on the other side of the aisle... Its time Democrats change their leadership, establish new platforms, and change the tone with which they advocate for their ideals. Every single one of the issues that most energize the far left, can be advocated for in a much more reasonable manner. Its time for them to make sure their own house is in order. Currently, the sink is overflowing, the toaster is on fire, and they're out on the porch yelling at the neighbors.
Obviously I understand the difficulties with this. Its human nature when you're facing opposition like a big chunk of the GOP now presents... to feel like you have to match the energy, the rhetoric, etc... But for many reasons, that isn't "working" for Democrats, like it has for the GOP.
The goal should be better conditions, acceptance, laws, leadership that help and further their ideals. What "you" are doing IS NOT WORKING. STOP! Reevaluate, regroup, rally behind leaders that can carry a more moderate message, without abandoning the ideals.
Your house is burning down and flooding from the inside. Passersby are seeing it. You feel like its your duty to spend most of your time yelling at your neighbor that's saying and doing awful things. Its time to make them look bad by being good people. Lean in to the actual good tenets of liberalism, progressivism, and Democracy. Their leadership gives exploitable opportunities, basically on a daily basis, to be the better person and leader... F-ing start using them, instead of giving them right back!!!!
Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear, Wes Moore, Mark Kelly, Pete Buttigieg, Bernie Sanders, Gretchen Whitmer, Gavin Newsome... Get your asses out in front of cameras, and say "this isn't our party...this isn't the way... this isn't who we are or who we want to be..." Ignore the idiot in the Oval Office for the next few years. When he, and his disciples, say and do ridiculous things, respond by holding a press conference pushing and promoting common sense alternatives to their BS. But don't engage him, or them. You do you. But do it well.
@hoopsdoc those were Kirk’s beliefs. He shared them in public. Civil Rights Act, Replacement Theory, Great Covid Reset, 2020 Election Fraud — this was his brand.
I think you guys mean well, but the whitewashing we do for team has gotta stop.
I am not exactly sure what Kirk said on each of those things.
But Democrat's did degrade the border and pervert the asylum system in attempt to import a lasting electoral majority. That's your replacement theory.
Biden Administration did use Covid as an excuse for New Deal type spending and a fundamentally new relationship with government, that's your covid reset.
Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional and should be repealed.
2020 election was a shit show, although i would stop short of saying there is evidence of fraud.
I'm not playing games. A lot of people on the left believe that words=violence. A lot of people on the left think standard right wing fare is evil and =violence. A lot of people on the left believe Kirk and Trump were Nazis or fascists. So, a lot of people on the left think Kirk, in some part, deserved his death (whether that death be from a groyper or a lefty). Apparently, you agree with this line of argument.Matthew Dowd reacted in real time. His immediate reaction was to say Kirk was partly to blame for being "divisive." Dowd is relatively reasonable compared to the radicals. I think his response was much more indicative of what's going on on the left than the video clips of mentally ill people celebrating.@bradstevens when it comes to politics 1) we don’t want the same things and 2) we don’t like each other.
compromise going fwd will be very difficult
I think we’re kinda playing word games here. We all seem to agree that over-the-top partisan rhetoric is part of what’s triggering these deranged dudes but it’s out of bounds to draw a line straight back to source of said rhetoric?
If Kirk had been promoting violence against others for their speech, then fine, bring this up (even if it is in poor taste in the immediate aftermath). But that's not what he ever did. He pretty explicitly said the opposite, as a matter of fact.
The discouraging thing is that Kirk was basically a conservative Christian. Those were almost exclusively his views, the way he lived.
To see the sheer number of people even in my life who equate that to extremism is really disturbing.
I actually had one exchange with a guy I know who claimed Kirk was using the open debate excuse as a means of spreading Nazi ideology. I’m sorry, what? What do you even say to that? How does that make any sense at all?
This whole thing has been very very sad. I’m really trying to understand why it’s affected me so much.
reddit is really disappointing. I know it’s not a general representation of the left but the ability to say more than 140 characters at a time is allowing lefties to really lean into explaining themselves. I agree Hoops. Kirk was your run of the mill conservative Christian that would have been mainstream Republican 20 years ago.
the fascist/nazi shit is rampant. Out of context quotes masquerading as truth. It’s vile. And while I don’t agree with @mcm666 that this is a true representation of the Dem party, and that similar sentiments exist on the Right, this zero sum mentality by the far left (and especially youths) is disturbing.
and, like you I suspect, it’s hitting me hard not because of their views on Kirk. It’s the complete lack of sympathy and the belief that he somehow “earned” his assassination because of his views (they never say deserve because they know that’s taboo)
No, 20 years ago the right wasn’t leaning so heavily on conspiracy theories. The evangelicals were just getting going, hadn’t yet completed their melding of religion and politics. Mainstream GOP activists weren’t saying crazy shit like the Civil Rights act was the worst thing to happen to the US or that Jews are leading a global effort to replace white Christians.
None of this would have been considered run of the mill 20 years ago.
Assuming you aren't a troll you have lost touch with reality. Lars is a normal lefty pointing out the obvious and being a good person, yet you still can't help yourself. This knee jerk reaction by too many leftist to try and disparage a person who was just assassinated a week ago is eye opening. It also shows just how far left the Overton window has shifted for some of you.
@hoopsdoc those were Kirk’s beliefs. He shared them in public. Civil Rights Act, Replacement Theory, Great Covid Reset, 2020 Election Fraud — this was his brand.
I think you guys mean well, but the whitewashing we do for team has gotta stop.
I am not exactly sure what Kirk said on each of those things.
But Democrat's did degrade the border and pervert the asylum system in attempt to import a lasting electoral majority. That's your replacement theory.
Biden Administration did use Covid as an excuse for New Deal type spending and a fundamentally new relationship with government, that's your covid reset.
Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional and should be repealed.
2020 election was a shit show, although i would stop short of saying there is evidence of fraud.
Agree with everything you said about the democrats. They suck but we were discussing whether Kirk would be mainstream circa 2005. He would not. He would ah e been considered a kook.
This knee jerk reaction by too many leftist to try and disparage a person who was just assassinated a week ago is eye opening. It also shows just how far left the Overton window has shifted for some of you.
The knee jerk reaction by too many righties to try and deify Kirk -- and characterize anything said that's less than worshipful as disparaging -- is eye opening.
What's mind boggling to me is how Kirk is being made a martyr to free speech, and the response to his killing is to threaten those engaging in speech they don't like with societal/political ostracism -- or worse.
I'm not playing games. A lot of people on the left believe that words=violence. A lot of people on the left think standard right wing fare is evil and =violence. A lot of people on the left believe Kirk and Trump were Nazis or fascists. So, a lot of people on the left think Kirk, in some part, deserved his death (whether that death be from a groyper or a lefty). Apparently, you agree with this line of argument.Matthew Dowd reacted in real time. His immediate reaction was to say Kirk was partly to blame for being "divisive." Dowd is relatively reasonable compared to the radicals. I think his response was much more indicative of what's going on on the left than the video clips of mentally ill people celebrating.@bradstevens when it comes to politics 1) we don’t want the same things and 2) we don’t like each other.
compromise going fwd will be very difficult
I think we’re kinda playing word games here. We all seem to agree that over-the-top partisan rhetoric is part of what’s triggering these deranged dudes but it’s out of bounds to draw a line straight back to source of said rhetoric?
If Kirk had been promoting violence against others for their speech, then fine, bring this up (even if it is in poor taste in the immediate aftermath). But that's not what he ever did. He pretty explicitly said the opposite, as a matter of fact.
The discouraging thing is that Kirk was basically a conservative Christian. Those were almost exclusively his views, the way he lived.
To see the sheer number of people even in my life who equate that to extremism is really disturbing.
I actually had one exchange with a guy I know who claimed Kirk was using the open debate excuse as a means of spreading Nazi ideology. I’m sorry, what? What do you even say to that? How does that make any sense at all?
This whole thing has been very very sad. I’m really trying to understand why it’s affected me so much.
reddit is really disappointing. I know it’s not a general representation of the left but the ability to say more than 140 characters at a time is allowing lefties to really lean into explaining themselves. I agree Hoops. Kirk was your run of the mill conservative Christian that would have been mainstream Republican 20 years ago.
the fascist/nazi shit is rampant. Out of context quotes masquerading as truth. It’s vile. And while I don’t agree with @mcm666 that this is a true representation of the Dem party, and that similar sentiments exist on the Right, this zero sum mentality by the far left (and especially youths) is disturbing.
and, like you I suspect, it’s hitting me hard not because of their views on Kirk. It’s the complete lack of sympathy and the belief that he somehow “earned” his assassination because of his views (they never say deserve because they know that’s taboo)
No, 20 years ago the right wasn’t leaning so heavily on conspiracy theories. The evangelicals were just getting going, hadn’t yet completed their melding of religion and politics. Mainstream GOP activists weren’t saying crazy shit like the Civil Rights act was the worst thing to happen to the US or that Jews are leading a global effort to replace white Christians.
None of this would have been considered run of the mill 20 years ago.
Assuming you aren't a troll you have lost touch with reality. Lars is a normal lefty pointing out the obvious and being a good person, yet you still can't help yourself. This knee jerk reaction by too many leftist to try and disparage a person who was just assassinated a week ago is eye opening. It also shows just how far left the Overton window has shifted for some of you.
No, just sick of the team-first lies we tell ourselves. I have opinions on policies, don’t claim a team . It’s easy if you admit both side suck.
again, for the hundredth time, his death was a tragedy but lying about who he was while alive isn’t honoring him. It’s just more tribal warfare. It’s dumb.
@carramrod Well, stopping short of saying the 2020 election was decided by fraud, is a pretty big distinction. And one that top leadership in the GOP doesn't make. And doubling down on it, challenges credibility because of how ignorant, stupid, bias, etc... it looks and is.
Covid was scary as hell... Trump was basically nonexistent in his response to it, which ultimately cost him his Presidency. When Biden came in to office, it was still very much scary as hell. He's not the only President in US history to use stimulus and spending to navigate scary waters. Its more than a little ironic, as well, coming from a supporter of the fella that just brought out the "Big Beautiful Bill"...which dwarfs anything Biden put out, spending wise. So... there's no arguing that Biden's response to Covid, ended up being pretty big overreach. And obviously he used the crisis to push his own parties agendas. Sounds very familiar.
His border policies were awful. So awful, he ended up giving Harris credit for them. And it cost both of them the Presidency. No arguments there.
Many Supreme Courts, conservative and liberal led, have upheld the constitutionality of the Civil Rights Act since it was enacted 60 plus years ago. Anyone that pays attention, knows the challenges it poses...but still, it remains despite that. So no, it isn't unconstitutional, and shouldn't be repealed.
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