@kojoe recruiting has been shit so far, missed on all the 5 stars. The center is Houston bound it seems. couple 4 stars are not gonna move the needle. He needs to hit HRs in the transfer portal with all our cash. Again, if he doesn't finish in the top 6 this year Ill be calling for his head. No leash in todays age. Look at May at MI, he won the freaking B1G tourney in year one. If DD did that, Id give my right nut! And thats the one I like!!!
@cavanagh May was an accomplished coach when he absconded to Michigan. We were commited to Woodson, who else was available at the time but Devries?
@kojoe I mean, that doesn't matter to me. Even more reason to cut bait if he isn't good right away.
@kojoe I mean, that doesn't matter to me. Even more reason to cut bait if he isn't good right away.
I would agree with you if this was last year's BT........but I think the BT has improved...a lot. Teams like Oregon, USC, UCLA, Washington, Illinois. And Purdue, Michigan, MSU & Wisconsin are still good. I don't think a non-top 6 finish should be a disqualifier. CDD was put in a tougher spot than most of those coaches.
One thing I'm going to be looking at.......Sisley's development. You can't let that guy go into a shell. We're not good enough. He's gotta be aggressive as hell. Don't let him settle into a 10 minute role.
totally with you. Money talks. You waste it for even a year then you have to go. New world of college sports... football and basketball anyway.
@openwheel Not to mention beating a Baylor team who outrebounded us badly. Yes, the jury is still out, but there are many good signs about where this coach and team are headed.
@cavanagh I don't think you can (accurately) say recruiting has been shit so far... He's gotten guys that are decently rated (40-100) and fit the profile of what he's looking for.. Recruiting is an "incomplete" grade if you only look at HS recruiting. The other big factor in the equation is the portal. I think CDD had a much tougher task, having to build an entire roster through the portal, especially last year dealing with NIL values that jumped tremendously and a turnover in boosters as I think many MW supporters withheld $$ for CDD. Look at Dusty's roster last year and I don't think any of his key contributors were HS recruits... Golden, Gayle, Donaldson, Wolf, etc... all from the portal. I think the very best and enduring top teams will do both: build through HS recruiting to establish culture and consistency and augment from the portal to address immediate needs. You can't really say how "recruiting" is going until you see who he gets in the portal for next year, and how we do this year. I don't think it's realistic to think he's going to build a BT winning roster in year 1 with a complete rebuild. I'm looking for the "culture" piece in that he's switching to playing a more modern style and gets guys who play hard and smart and buy in. So far, I think it's clear they're going to play hard and smart and play a more modern style. Will they do that well enough to show improvement and win, remains to be seen. Relax a bit and give it a few games before making pronouncements that a player or coach is shit or not going to to work out. Marquette will give us a much better indicator, but they did what the should have in game 1.
Wasn't playing Devries BB.
In the first two games, what is it that he was doing in PR that he's not doing now, or is doing now that he wasn't in PR?
@kkott I think being competitive with the top teams, and ultimately finishing in the top 3rd of the conference, year 1... is a reasonable expectation. Other coaches have done it with complete rebuilds. May had a few guys back, but most of his roster last year for UM was new, and really all his main contributors were new. There are a decent chunk of schools that also had to rebuild, with lesser resources. So if he finishes middle of the pack, would he have "outperformed" really any B10 coaches?
But, I don't think if he finishes outside top 6, that he should be fired. 7th place will almost assuredly safely make the NCAA tournament. In fact, outside a near bottom of the B10 finish, AND the culture and vibe in the locker room going to complete shit... I don't think he would deserve getting fired after year 1, for much of any result.
But if he finishes at or below .500, misses the NCAAs, then I would have serious concerns whether he's the guy for IU. And I'd be pretty consistent sharing those concerns on this board, and in real life to people. And I'm sure many others would too.
@cavanagh I don't think you can (accurately) say recruiting has been shit so far... He's gotten guys that are decently rated (40-100) and fit the profile of what he's looking for.. Recruiting is an "incomplete" grade if you only look at HS recruiting. The other big factor in the equation is the portal. I think CDD had a much tougher task, having to build an entire roster through the portal, especially last year dealing with NIL values that jumped tremendously and a turnover in boosters as I think many MW supporters withheld $$ for CDD. Look at Dusty's roster last year and I don't think any of his key contributors were HS recruits... Golden, Gayle, Donaldson, Wolf, etc... all from the portal. I think the very best and enduring top teams will do both: build through HS recruiting to establish culture and consistency and augment from the portal to address immediate needs. You can't really say how "recruiting" is going until you see who he gets in the portal for next year, and how we do this year. I don't think it's realistic to think he's going to build a BT winning roster in year 1 with a complete rebuild. I'm looking for the "culture" piece in that he's switching to playing a more modern style and gets guys who play hard and smart and buy in. So far, I think it's clear they're going to play hard and smart and play a more modern style. Will they do that well enough to show improvement and win, remains to be seen. Relax a bit and give it a few games before making pronouncements that a player or coach is shit or not going to to work out. Marquette will give us a much better indicator, but they did what the should have in game 1.
Along the lines of what you're saying.....in terms of expectations......we were rated as having the 4th best portal class in the BT. And only 1 incoming recruit in TS. Some of the other teams turned almost completely over, but still kept 1 or 2 important pieces. Others had 3 or 4 HS recruits. Some have most of their roster back. Just on the face of it, a top 6 BT finish is not likely.
How well he did in the portal is a separate issue.....
I think make the tourney is the present line. And beating Purdue in B-ton.
That said, he's behind the 8 ball already if he finishes 8th and we are one & done. Unfortunate but realistic.
totally with you. Money talks. You waste it for even a year then you have to go. New world of college sports... football and basketball anyway.
DeVries didn't have the cash Woody had. By all accounts we were around top 3 in the nation when Woody was here for NIL. Now we're around #15.
Well let's see how Baylor does ... they also have a completely new roster... zero points coming back from last year. That might be a good comparison.
that said if he's solely relying on money to buy players without developing a rapport then he won't be a very good recruiter of high school kids. Money is a factor don't get me wrong but charisma and coaching prowess also is a contributor.
he doesn't finish in top 6 I will be concerned. Depends on what that looks like. Are the top 6 teams really good teams and we are just a skosh below and we've improved as the year has gone along. Etc. then that's different.
totally with you. Money talks. You waste it for even a year then you have to go. New world of college sports... football and basketball anyway.
DeVries didn't have the cash Woody had. By all accounts we were around top 3 in the nation when Woody was here for NIL. Now we're around #15.
I imagine that may fluctuate from year to year based on the amounts raised to the fund per school.
@kkott I think being competitive with the top teams, and ultimately finishing in the top 3rd of the conference, year 1... is a reasonable expectation. Other coaches have done it with complete rebuilds. May had a few guys back, but most of his roster last year for UM was new, and really all his main contributors were new. There are a decent chunk of schools that also had to rebuild, with lesser resources. So if he finishes middle of the pack, would he have "outperformed" really any B10 coaches?
But, I don't think if he finishes outside top 6, that he should be fired. 7th place will almost assuredly safely make the NCAA tournament. In fact, outside a near bottom of the B10 finish, AND the culture and vibe in the locker room going to complete shit... I don't think he would deserve getting fired after year 1, for much of any result.
But if he finishes at or below .500, misses the NCAAs, then I would have serious concerns whether he's the guy for IU. And I'd be pretty consistent sharing those concerns on this board, and in real life to people. And I'm sure many others would too.
Top 3 with this roster would be quite an accomplishment. Purdue, Michigan, Wisconsin, UCLA and MSU all look pretty good. Illinois is a big wild card, but those foreign kids are highly rated. So...that's 6 we're likely behind. I think we're somewhere in the next group with USC, Washington, Iowa, Oregon and Maryland. Stirtz from Iowa is a great player, the best players from Drake transferred there, and Cooper Koch returns. I think we finish behind them. Washington, USC and Oregon have decent rosters and competent coaches. I don't see any particular reason to think we finish ahead of all 3.
I'll give you Maryland and probably OSU just on coaching ?s. And we should be better than MN, Neb, NW, PSU, and Rutgers.