@arioznahoosier4554 Michigan doesn't have a good chance to win a Natty this year? Hmmm..
Many big ten teams have had good chances over the last 25 years and have come up short.
@gerdis I do think its dumb to say they'll never win one again... yes. 39 years is a really, really long time. And I'm not saying CDD is going to win one any time soon. All I'm making the case for... a good coach + IU's resources = a program that can win a natty. Since we won in 87, we had numerous teams that could have won it...like the types of teams I'm referring to, that CDD could build the team back to in a few years. Cheaney's teams had a couple chances...very well could have won it if not for Henderson's knee injury. The Bailey, Henderson, Evans team had the juice to do it, right after the Cheaney teams. Mike Davis was 8 minutes away from doing it, for Pete's sake. Sampson had arguably the best team in the nation in his 2nd year, and would have contended for it if it all hadn't imploded. Crean had one of the best teams in the nation Jordy's senior year, and had a team that could have won it. What has happened since then... is maybe what's giving some the feeling of hopelessness? Not moving on Crean maybe as quickly as we should have, and then 2 really poor coaches.
CDD should be a better choice than the previous 2... And basically every coach in IU's history, back to McCracken, has been able to build at least 1 or 2 championship caliber teams. IF...IF... CDD is willing and able to go get NBA levels of talent... there's no reason he won't be able to field teams capable of winning it all.
Now... will IU ever mid 70s to early 90s dominant again? That's a completely different question...and one I'd have a lot more pessimism towards.
Winning a national title is very hard. Heck if Coleman could have hit free throws we would not even have won in 1987 and the smart shot was needed to seal it. Takes a ton of luck.
@jackskip23 Ehhhh, not sure I agree with that. The Hurley hire was scrutinized, at the time, because his career was uneven coming in to UConn. And then it was heavily scrutinized after his first couple teams. Many would say his program might not have ever turned had he not hired Luke Murray. And then Golden...no... he didn't compete for conference titles at San Fran. And his first couple years at Florida weren't great. I wouldn't say either of them were regarded any more highly than CDD was.
I meant highly regarded in the coaching and basketball world. Both got high marks in that community, while guys like Archie were more media darlings than favorites of the basketball crowd. All good stuff and I hope you’re right about our opportunities in the near future.
Where is the evidence of this?
AFA Archie, the other day somebody posted an article with votes on best hires to indicate DDV isn't well thought of by peers (when you can go back to see the previous iterations of that coach vote to see Archie was number one when he took the job here). I'm not sure I buy any of this.
@gerdis I do think its dumb to say they'll never win one again... yes. 39 years is a really, really long time. And I'm not saying CDD is going to win one any time soon. All I'm making the case for... a good coach + IU's resources = a program that can win a natty. Since we won in 87, we had numerous teams that could have won it...like the types of teams I'm referring to, that CDD could build the team back to in a few years. Cheaney's teams had a couple chances...very well could have won it if not for Henderson's knee injury. The Bailey, Henderson, Evans team had the juice to do it, right after the Cheaney teams. Mike Davis was 8 minutes away from doing it, for Pete's sake. Sampson had arguably the best team in the nation in his 2nd year, and would have contended for it if it all hadn't imploded. Crean had one of the best teams in the nation Jordy's senior year, and had a team that could have won it. What has happened since then... is maybe what's giving some the feeling of hopelessness? Not moving on Crean maybe as quickly as we should have, and then 2 really poor coaches.
CDD should be a better choice than the previous 2... And basically every coach in IU's history, back to McCracken, has been able to build at least 1 or 2 championship caliber teams. IF...IF... CDD is willing and able to go get NBA levels of talent... there's no reason he won't be able to field teams capable of winning it all.
Now... will IU ever mid 70s to early 90s dominant again? That's a completely different question...and one I'd have a lot more pessimism towards.
Winning a national title is very hard. Heck if Coleman could have hit free throws we would not even have won in 1987 and the smart shot was needed to seal it. Takes a ton of luck.
Exactly. We had several teams not winning a national championship that were superior to the 1987 squad. The draw, our trajectory, team health, good old fashioned luck - they all have a major hand in who wins the tournament.
@jackskip23 Ehhhh, not sure I agree with that. The Hurley hire was scrutinized, at the time, because his career was uneven coming in to UConn. And then it was heavily scrutinized after his first couple teams. Many would say his program might not have ever turned had he not hired Luke Murray. And then Golden...no... he didn't compete for conference titles at San Fran. And his first couple years at Florida weren't great. I wouldn't say either of them were regarded any more highly than CDD was.
I meant highly regarded in the coaching and basketball world. Both got high marks in that community, while guys like Archie were more media darlings than favorites of the basketball crowd. All good stuff and I hope you’re right about our opportunities in the near future.
Where is the evidence of this?
AFA Archie, the other day somebody posted an article with votes on best hires to indicate DDV isn't well thought of by peers (when you can go back to see the previous iterations of that coach vote to see Archie was number one when he took the job here). I'm not sure I buy any of this.
Archie was a big media favorite but there was a reason he was still at Dayton when we hired him, even after four seasons of at least mid-20’s wins.
@jackskip23 and I just said that a coach vote said he was the best hire in the country at the time he took the job here.
Unless you have some more evidence than what you're alluding to, it seems like a whole lot of revisionist history regarding all these guys.
@gerdis I do think its dumb to say they'll never win one again... yes. 39 years is a really, really long time. And I'm not saying CDD is going to win one any time soon. All I'm making the case for... a good coach + IU's resources = a program that can win a natty. Since we won in 87, we had numerous teams that could have won it...like the types of teams I'm referring to, that CDD could build the team back to in a few years. Cheaney's teams had a couple chances...very well could have won it if not for Henderson's knee injury. The Bailey, Henderson, Evans team had the juice to do it, right after the Cheaney teams. Mike Davis was 8 minutes away from doing it, for Pete's sake. Sampson had arguably the best team in the nation in his 2nd year, and would have contended for it if it all hadn't imploded. Crean had one of the best teams in the nation Jordy's senior year, and had a team that could have won it. What has happened since then... is maybe what's giving some the feeling of hopelessness? Not moving on Crean maybe as quickly as we should have, and then 2 really poor coaches.
CDD should be a better choice than the previous 2... And basically every coach in IU's history, back to McCracken, has been able to build at least 1 or 2 championship caliber teams. IF...IF... CDD is willing and able to go get NBA levels of talent... there's no reason he won't be able to field teams capable of winning it all.
Now... will IU ever mid 70s to early 90s dominant again? That's a completely different question...and one I'd have a lot more pessimism towards.
Winning a national title is very hard. Heck if Coleman could have hit free throws we would not even have won in 1987 and the smart shot was needed to seal it. Takes a ton of luck.
Exactly. We had several teams not winning a national championship that were superior to the 1987 squad. The draw, our trajectory, team health, good old fashioned luck - they all have a major hand in who wins the tournament.
The last real good chance we had was the year henderson went down with the knee injury. Bad luck happens often. I guess we could have won it in with coverdale but we would have needed a perfect game to beat maryland
@jackskip23 Ehhhh, not sure I agree with that. The Hurley hire was scrutinized, at the time, because his career was uneven coming in to UConn. And then it was heavily scrutinized after his first couple teams. Many would say his program might not have ever turned had he not hired Luke Murray. And then Golden...no... he didn't compete for conference titles at San Fran. And his first couple years at Florida weren't great. I wouldn't say either of them were regarded any more highly than CDD was.
I meant highly regarded in the coaching and basketball world. Both got high marks in that community, while guys like Archie were more media darlings than favorites of the basketball crowd. All good stuff and I hope you’re right about our opportunities in the near future.
Where is the evidence of this?
AFA Archie, the other day somebody posted an article with votes on best hires to indicate DDV isn't well thought of by peers (when you can go back to see the previous iterations of that coach vote to see Archie was number one when he took the job here). I'm not sure I buy any of this.
Archie was a big media favorite but there was a reason he was still at Dayton when we hired him, even after four seasons of at least mid-20’s wins.
Well DD was at Drake for six years why did it take a program 6 years to hire him? Pretty much the same case as with Archie.
| 2018–19 | Drake | 24–10 | 12–6 | T–1st | CIT First Round | |||
| 2019–20 | Drake | 20–14 | 8–10 | 8th | Postseason canceled | |||
| 2020–21 | Drake | 26–5 | 15–3 | 2nd | NCAA Division I Round of 64 | |||
| 2021–22 | Drake | 25–11 | 13–5 | T–2nd | CBI Quarterfinals | |||
| 2022–23 | Drake | 27–8 | 15–5 | 2nd | NCAA Division I Round of 64 | |||
| 2023–24 | Drake | 28–7 | 16–4 | 2nd | NCAA Division I Round of 64 | |||
| Drake: | 150–55 (.732) | 79–33 (.705) | ||||||
Well DD was at Drake for six years why did it take a program 6 years to hire him? Pretty much the same case as with Archie.
What exactly is this evidence of? Do you think bad coaches aren't hired by bigger programs in less years sometimes?
Drake had been to 1 NCAAT the previous 50 years before DDV took them to 3 in 6, so I'd consider that fairly successful given the state of things.
RMK coached at Army for 6 years, I guess he wasn't well thought of either.
Well DD was at Drake for six years why did it take a program 6 years to hire him? Pretty much the same case as with Archie.
What exactly is this evidence of? Do you think bad coaches aren't hired by bigger programs in less years sometimes?
Drake had been to 1 NCAAT the previous 50 years before DDV took them to 3 in 6, so I'd consider that fairly successful given the state of things.
RMK coached at Army for 6 years, I guess he wasn't well thought of either.
Someone was claiming archie was at Dayton so long because nobody wanted him. If that was the case the same could be said for DD. As for knight that was a totally different time when you actually had to build teams and had four year players. Now you mostly got to buy a team. DD may be a good coach but without pretty big NIL its going to be pretty tough to land any bigger fish let alone get guys to stay multiple years. You no longe get three years to coach up the same players like four or five years ago.
@arioznahoosier4554 some poster saying that and it being true are different things. OSU would have hired Archie if we didn't grab him first, so teams definitely wanted him. He was wildly considered a top up-and-comer by not just the media but by peers (using the same kind of coach voting that was used to try and discredit DDV).
This is all hogwash, to be honest. There's no direct evidence of peers thinking poorly of him. Its just people ranting for the sake of it.
Yeah, we have to have good NIL to succeed nowadays. That goes for everybody, not just DDV. If we hired pre-UCONN Hurley or pre-Florida Golden this year under the same circumstances I don't see how anybody can kid themselves in to thinking NIL would be flooding in. Same thing if we hired Kelsey this year or last.
Bigfoot Woodson used his connections to grift for 4 years and rob mega donors blind while accomplishing nothing. The pocketbooks are closed, unfortunately. its the biggest (among a million) reasons why Woodson needed to be fired after 3 years. Its a huge debacle and Buckner should have to answer for it instead of continuing to grift while sitting on the BOT.
Well DD was at Drake for six years why did it take a program 6 years to hire him? Pretty much the same case as with Archie.
What exactly is this evidence of? Do you think bad coaches aren't hired by bigger programs in less years sometimes?
Drake had been to 1 NCAAT the previous 50 years before DDV took them to 3 in 6, so I'd consider that fairly successful given the state of things.
RMK coached at Army for 6 years, I guess he wasn't well thought of either.
Click on seasons and look at the records pre 2018. That includes Tom Davis who took Iowa to the tourney most years including an Elite 8 and multiple S16s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Drake_Bulldogs_men%27s_basketball_seasons
@arioznahoosier4554 some poster saying that and it being true are different things. OSU would have hired Archie if we didn't grab him first, so teams definitely wanted him. He was wildly considered a top up-and-comer by not just the media but by peers (using the same kind of coach voting that was used to try and discredit DDV).
This is all hogwash, to be honest. There's no direct evidence of peers thinking poorly of him. Its just people ranting for the sake of it.
Yeah, we have to have good NIL to succeed nowadays. That goes for everybody, not just DDV. If we hired pre-UCONN Hurley or pre-Florida Golden this year under the same circumstances I don't see how anybody can kid themselves in to thinking NIL would be flooding in. Same thing if we hired Kelsey this year or last.
Bigfoot Woodson used his connections to grift for 4 years and rob mega donors blind while accomplishing nothing. The pocketbooks are closed, unfortunately. its the biggest (among a million) reasons why Woodson needed to be fired after 3 years. Its a huge debacle and Buckner should have to answer for it instead of continuing to grift while sitting on the BOT.
Our NIL to me is average at best for DD. The class DD brought in is that not impressive at all, He got Wilkerson but the rest are just mid major average guys. I dont count gettting his kid because that was a no brainer. Then he went after all these highly ranked 2026 guys and got none of them. Many said it was because we got outbid so if that is the case our NIL really is not that great imo and will be a major problem for DD going forward. Schools like BYU will continue to have crazy amounts of NIL but most of ours is likely going to go to football.
@arioznahoosier4554 some poster saying that and it being true are different things. OSU would have hired Archie if we didn't grab him first, so teams definitely wanted him. He was wildly considered a top up-and-comer by not just the media but by peers (using the same kind of coach voting that was used to try and discredit DDV).
This is all hogwash, to be honest. There's no direct evidence of peers thinking poorly of him. Its just people ranting for the sake of it.
Yeah, we have to have good NIL to succeed nowadays. That goes for everybody, not just DDV. If we hired pre-UCONN Hurley or pre-Florida Golden this year under the same circumstances I don't see how anybody can kid themselves in to thinking NIL would be flooding in. Same thing if we hired Kelsey this year or last.
Bigfoot Woodson used his connections to grift for 4 years and rob mega donors blind while accomplishing nothing. The pocketbooks are closed, unfortunately. its the biggest (among a million) reasons why Woodson needed to be fired after 3 years. Its a huge debacle and Buckner should have to answer for it instead of continuing to grift while sitting on the BOT.
Our NIL to me is average at best for DD. The class DD brought in is that not impressive at all, He got Wilkerson but the rest are just mid major average guys. I dont count gettting his kid because that was a no brainer. Then he went after all these highly ranked 2026 guys and got none of them. Many said it was because we got outbid so if that is the case our NIL really is not that great imo and will be a major problem for DD going forward. Schools like BYU will continue to have crazy amounts of NIL but most of ours is likely going to go to football.
Do we have any idea what Purdue's is? I can't imagine it is as much as ours yet Painter is still able to put together top 10 teams.
@jackskip23 and I just said that a coach vote said he was the best hire in the country at the time he took the job here.
Unless you have some more evidence than what you're alluding to, it seems like a whole lot of revisionist history regarding all these guys.
Yeah, not everybody felt he was ready for a step up, and they didn’t think we were wise to focus solely on him. That proved to be right.
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