Sure, calling Pretti domestic terrorist is inappropriate. But he wasn’t there by chance. He was directed to that specific place at that specific time by means of a social network intended to encourage confronting and obstructing ICE agents in their work at all times and in all places. Pretty voluntarily inserted himself into the melee.
He inserted himself between a woman who was being roughed up and an out of control thug and was murdered for it. Otherwise he was a bystander who was observing and recording, not impeding or interfering in any way.
Let me preface this by saying, the ICE agent that shot Pretti (if it was only one, I'm not sure that's entirely clear) should be investigated and prosecuted if that's what the investigation leads to (which it looks like it most assuredly will).
But
Is it possible to "observe and record" more than 12 inches in front of the ICE agent? I know I know. But he most certainly impedes the agent's personal space to "get in his face." Just 2x that camera and you get the same shot. My take is, again, poke the bear all you want but don't be surprised if it turns on you. In this case, the bear is an armed agent of the fedearl government who should damn well know better and be able to control his emotions. That's why he's likely to be prosecuted.
I guess Mark I don't understand the motivations, or thought processes, that lead a person to engage in a physical altercation while carrying a concealed weapon. I'm sure were he to have lived through this altercation there would be a small part of him (or large, who knows) that would reconsider his own actions that day.
all that to say, the ICE agent should be brought up on charges and the battle should be between the authority of the state of MN to do so and the feds to protect him from same.
"Don't wear that short skirt sweetie, you might get raped!"
No officer-involved shooting involves a cop who "awoke that morning with the intent to murder a bystander."How would you apportion responsibility for this horrible death arising from an emotionally charged chaotic situation?
I see the relevant players as:
1. Walz and Fry who compared the federal officials as Nazis and gestapo, obviously with the intent to introduce emotions to ICE operations. In addition they instructed bystanders to video ice operations to document assumed atrocities.
2. Left- wing groups who posted on various media the time and place of ICE operations with the intent of having demonstrations and protests happen and causing general chaos at all ICE operations.
3. Pretti himself who chose to follow the social media to be present at the time and place of this operation, while carrying a 9 mm handgun. He further chose to confront ICE agents after he saw an agent push a subject to the ground.
4. The 6 ICE agents who removed Pretti from the scene, one of whom yelled gun!
5. The unknown number of bystanders incessantly blowing whistles contributing to chaos and making communications among the agents difficult.
6. The agent(s) who actually fired at Pretti.
7. Those responsible for training and directing the agent in question that morning.
I doubt the agent awoke that morning with the intent to murder a bystander, so what facts and circumstance motivated him to pull the trigger? Where did the motivation come from? At the moment of firing, what did he see, hear, and think?
Remove some of these factors and Pretti would be alive. All of them played a role. Did the agent who pulled the trigger supersede all the contributing factors? All of this needs to be investigated and evaluated. My own opinion is the agent is not solely responsible for this death.
Big-city police regularly apprehend armed individuals. That's a core component of law enforcement training. Fortunately, those situations rarely end with someone getting shot. That's due to extensive, effective training.
In this case, it appears that the agents didn't even know Pretti was carrying until he was on the ground and they were beating the shit out of him. One or more of them then riddled the guy with bullets. This smacks of agents who aren't equipped to be armed and/or received inadequate/poor training. One or more of them panicked.
You can point to other contributing factors but the bottom line is there was no legal justification for Pretti's killing. He should still be alive. One or more of these agents fucked up royally.
How would you apportion responsibility for this horrible death arising from an emotionally charged chaotic situation?
I see the relevant players as:
1. Walz and Fry who compared the federal officials as Nazis and gestapo, obviously with the intent to introduce emotions to ICE operations. In addition they instructed bystanders to video ice operations to document assumed atrocities.
2. Left- wing groups who posted on various media the time and place of ICE operations with the intent of having demonstrations and protests happen and causing general chaos at all ICE operations.
3. Pretti himself who chose to follow the social media to be present at the time and place of this operation, while carrying a 9 mm handgun. He further chose to confront ICE agents after he saw an agent push a subject to the ground.
4. The 6 ICE agents who removed Pretti from the scene, one of whom yelled gun!
5. The unknown number of bystanders incessantly blowing whistles contributing to chaos and making communications among the agents difficult.
6. The agent(s) who actually fired at Pretti.
7. Those responsible for training and directing the agent in question that morning.
I doubt the agent awoke that morning with the intent to murder a bystander, so what facts and circumstance motivated him to pull the trigger? Where did the motivation come from? At the moment of firing, what did he see, hear, and think?
Remove some of these factors and Pretti would be alive. All of them played a role. Did the agent who pulled the trigger supersede all the contributing factors? All of this needs to be investigated and evaluated. My own opinion is the agent is not solely responsible for this death.
How about the people who said there was absolutely no reason to investigate the previous shooting? The same people who ran a social media campaign more or less saying, "want to take back your manhood, join ICE and have power." The last people who should be cops are the people craving power.
I would love to find out what training ICE gets. What protocols are they taught? What background checks? There is a reporter with screenshots telling her she was hired and should report to a certain location on a certain date, yet she never completed the background check. She was applying to see how people were vetted.
How many hours of training? What are they taught? What accountability? The previous immediate, "no investigation" sure implies no accountability. I don't know if either shooting broke protocols, but at least I am smart enough to know I don't know. A lot of people pretend they know though there is no way they do because there was no investigation. Any city cop would have been put on desk assignment pending investigation in both cases. We both know that. Why is ICE'S standard apparently so much lower.
We need Walz to meet with the guy from Border Patrol and discuss calming one side and a flat out guarantee the other will 1) abide by the Constitution and 2) allow investigations when it is in doubt.
Big-city police regularly apprehend armed individuals. That's a core component of law enforcement training. Fortunately, those situations rarely end with someone getting shot. That's due to extensive, effective training.
The MPD chief said from the podium that they had apprehended some 900 violent and/or armed criminals in the last year and hadn't shot (or was it killed?) any of them.
Big-city police regularly apprehend armed individuals. That's a core component of law enforcement training. Fortunately, those situations rarely end with someone getting shot. That's due to extensive, effective training.
The MPD chief said from the podium that they had apprehended some 900 violent and/or armed criminals in the last year and hadn't shot (or was it killed?) any of them.
"The Minneapolis Police Department went the entire year last year recovering about 900 guns from the street, arresting hundreds of violent offenders, and we didn't shoot anyone." - O'Hara yesterday on Face the Nation.
Sure, calling Pretti domestic terrorist is inappropriate. But he wasn’t there by chance. He was directed to that specific place at that specific time by means of a social network intended to encourage confronting and obstructing ICE agents in their work at all times and in all places. Pretty voluntarily inserted himself into the melee.
He inserted himself between a woman who was being roughed up and an out of control thug and was murdered for it. Otherwise he was a bystander who was observing and recording, not impeding or interfering in any way.
Let me preface this by saying, the ICE agent that shot Pretti (if it was only one, I'm not sure that's entirely clear) should be investigated and prosecuted if that's what the investigation leads to (which it looks like it most assuredly will).
But
Is it possible to "observe and record" more than 12 inches in front of the ICE agent? I know I know. But he most certainly impedes the agent's personal space to "get in his face." Just 2x that camera and you get the same shot. My take is, again, poke the bear all you want but don't be surprised if it turns on you. In this case, the bear is an armed agent of the fedearl government who should damn well know better and be able to control his emotions. That's why he's likely to be prosecuted.
I guess Mark I don't understand the motivations, or thought processes, that lead a person to engage in a physical altercation while carrying a concealed weapon. I'm sure were he to have lived through this altercation there would be a small part of him (or large, who knows) that would reconsider his own actions that day.
all that to say, the ICE agent should be brought up on charges and the battle should be between the authority of the state of MN to do so and the feds to protect him from same.
During the scrum with the lady and the agent, all he did was get in between the two with his hands up, then was trying to get her up when he was taken down. He never engaged with the agents until they took him down.
I'm normally with you on stuff like this, but this was way escalated by the agents when it didn't need to be.
Oh I agree and that's why the agent(s) will be prosecuted. I'm not saying it was throwing haymakers but he was resisting. However, I'm not sure if he'd have announced the gun on his waistband it would have made much difference. Which is, again, why the agent(s) will be prosecuted.
Oh I agree and that's why the agent(s) will be prosecuted. I'm not saying it was throwing haymakers but he was resisting. However, I'm not sure if he'd have announced the gun on his waistband it would have made much difference. Which is, again, why the agent(s) will be prosecuted.
I wish I was as confident of that as you are.
"Don't wear that short skirt sweetie, you might get raped!"
Hi. I understand teh equivalency you're trying to make here but i don't think it flies. it's close but not quite the same thing. Close though.
I have also reached the conclusion that it’s time for ICE to pause what they’re doing in Minnesota. Just in Minnesota. Nowhere else is having these issues.
Just pause for a minute, let everything die down, and then resume. What’s happening now is 90 percent the fault of the agitators but it doesn’t matter. This is a PR battle the administration cannot win.
it lies with the government to defuse the situation. Just pull out for now. Let these lunatics demonstrate for a week and then they’ll all go home and they can continue doing their jobs.
I realize that this is highly unlikely to happen but it’s what SHOULD happen.
I have also reached the conclusion that it’s time for ICE to pause what they’re doing in Minnesota. Just in Minnesota. Nowhere else is having these issues.
Just pause for a minute, let everything die down, and then resume. What’s happening now is 90 percent the fault of the agitators but it doesn’t matter. This is a PR battle the administration cannot win.
it lies with the government to defuse the situation. Just pull out for now. Let these lunatics demonstrate for a week and then they’ll all go home and they can continue doing their jobs.
I realize that this is highly unlikely to happen but it’s what SHOULD happen.
That's the common sense practical solution, one I advocated for several days ago. Of course it won't happen; can't be seen as weak or as backing down.
He was not a domestic terrorist, as Noem & Vance have alleged. LIES. LIES that inflame the public, because they are obviously lies.
I am not sure that he was even an agitator.
He was a concerned citizen, filming what was going on (as is his right), was shocked by violence inflicted on another bystander, as a trained nurse wanted to stop the attack and render aid.
Sure, he was armed. Also his right. Did we repeal the 2nd A? The gun stayed concealed the entire time and was never "brandished" (another Noem/ Vance/ ICE inflammatory lie). A officer noticed the gun in his waistband as he was on the ground being kicked, presumably disturbing his clothing and making it visible.
Then an officer removed the gun.
ONLY THEN, WHEN UNARMED AND FULLY SUBDUED, SURROUNDED BY AT LEAST 6 AGENTS, WAS HE EXECUTED.
Shot not once, not twice, not 3, 4, or 5 times, but somewhere between 6 and 9 times, by more than one executioner, it appears.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Sure, he was armed. Also his right. Did we repeal the 2nd A?
These people are woke lunatics out to cause trouble. NOthing more. They fckd around found out. And no you don't have unfettered rights to bring your gun anywhere. TPM restrictions etc. There are no words for how worthless Dem leadership and how stupid the woke cult is. Go agitate a gun toting poorly trained lunatic and you risk having a 5 year old without a second mother. Prosecute the ICE agent. Get him off the streets. But whatever it's BLM, Floyd, Minny with Ice, Dems are always on the side of stupid and breaking the law.
I don't know what happened to Dems. Obama, Clinton, nothing like this. This is governance by middle school girls.
In the terms of the "deporter in Chief" Obama, how often were US citizens the target of ICE actions based on their political affiliation? How many of them were shot? How many were executed on the spot?
The end doesn't justify the means. Most Dems are on the side of getting rid of as many criminals as possible, all while abiding by the Constitution and the rule of law. Most MAGA zealots treat the Constitution as if it were Trump's diaper.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
Most Dems are on the side of getting rid of as many criminals as possible, all while abiding by the Constitution and the rule of law.
Incorrect. Dems are on teh side of people breaking the law, defund, bail projects, Michael Brown, George Floyd, the lady running over the agent, sanctuary cities.
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