I cannot believe any American would support Trump's fascist goon squad, so I think I will start this thread and wait to hear you denounce his ICE tactics and admit you were wrong to support this. See, departed and forlorn or not, we have afforded freedoms, protected by the United States constitution and anyone who impedes those freedoms, by action of a federal agency, is committing an unlawful act, and is therefore a criminal by conspiracy against rights:
18 U.S. Code § 241 - Conspiracy against rights
“It’s not illegal to record,” the woman can be heard saying in a video posted Friday by self-described activist Nathan Bernard.
“Exactly, that’s what we’re doing,” the agent responds.
“Yeah, why are you taking my information down?” she asked.
“Because we have a nice little database, and now you’re considered a domestic terrorist,” he responded, sending her laughing.
“For videotaping you? Are you crazy?” she snarked.
Conspiracy Against Rights is a Federal Offense:
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
ICE agent in Portland, Maine tells legal observer she is a domestic terrorist for peacefully recording him, adds her to "nice little database"
Dude -
This sentence:
"I cannot believe any American would support Trump's fascist goon squad, so I think I will start this thread and wait to hear you denounce his ICE tactics and admit you were wrong to support this."
makes no sense.
You SAY no American would support these tactics, then ask them to admit they were wrong in supporting them. What were you hoping for? Admissions of "I am not an American."?
I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm sorta known as a right-winger, and yet - as crazy as that will feel to a person with your prejudices - I support Article VI of Constitution, and the First and Second Amendments to the Constitution. I invite you to read them. I also support the "tactics" of SNCC and the SLC and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. I invite you to read about them too. They successfully changed laws.
I do not support the "tactics" of violence used by anybody. Why? Because they INEVITABLY cause the harming and deaths of innocents.
And while I think that 2 unnecessary and avoidable deaths are NOT a "tactic," or even evidence of a "tactic," they are still too many, unequivocally.
I am sad to know that there are people on both the extreme left and extreme right who secretly celebrate these deaths because they give their "side" the ability to use them to score political points. I am also sad that these will not be the last deaths associated with enforcement of immigration laws passed by Congress, and the opposition thereto. The Constitution provides for ways to change the law. This violence is unnecessary.
NYC is not a canary in a coal mine for the rest of America. Bernie Sanders had no chance to be the nominee of Dems because he embraced the socialist tag, in part (Democratic socialist). Dems don't want that. Independents don't want that. Pubs don't want that. I expect AOC will face the same issue.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@shooter I used to believe that but no longer do. Name the voices from the left who aren't woke? Who aren't radical progressives? Name the leaders of the party who aren't woke? The most liberal policies of all, Calif, NYC, Chicago, AOC, are the party. And they are simply a continuation of what we saw under Biden's hyper woke policies. Instead of pivoting the party has doubled down. And we're watching it in real time with Mamdani and Walz
No, these deaths are at the feet of BIDEN and Dems in sanctuary cities. If Biden had continued border policies of Obama and Trump, this would not be happening. If Dems worked with ICE, this would not be happening. Why do Dems WANT criminal illegals to stay so badly? Please, answer that one simple question.
NYC is not a canary in a coal mine for the rest of America. Bernie Sanders had no chance to be the nominee of Dems because he embraced the socialist tag, in part (Democratic socialist). Dems don't want that. Independents don't want that. Pubs don't want that. I expect AOC will face the same issue.
Bernie Sanders had a hell of a chance to be the Dem nominee. Twice.
Once the DNC colluded with the Clinton campaign and Hillary still had to eke out the nom.
Then another coordinated campaign saw every Democrat in the field drop out and endorse Biden before South Carolina when it became clear that without consolidation Bernie would take the nom.
There’s no question where the energy of the Democratic Party was in those two races and it was behind Bernie
Virtually nobody but wacked-out fringe extremists WANT criminal illegals to stay.
You seem to confuse opposition to the means by which that noble objective is achieved and the collateral damage to others, including US citizens, with an imagined desire to never achieve it.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@shooter Your distinction is of no moment. The left's omission with the border is tacit approval of same. They knew that everything would get through, and simply didn't care. And for a conservative you sure fight like a dog for the left's inane policies.
Trump has been more measured today than usual. That is helpful.
Homan running things in Minny is an improvement as well. Send Border Patrol Napoleon back south where he belongs.
Homan gets a bad rap from many leftists but I’ve never seen him be anything other than measured and competent at what he does. Several administrations have seen the same.
Over 1/3 of all immigration arrests are in 3 states: Texas, Florida, and Tennessee. Despite being red, something all 3 of those states have in common is laws requiring state and local law enforcement to cooperate with ICE. The "at-large" arrests are lower in red states exactly because of this. ICE doesn't have to go out into the public to find and arrest illegals because the states hand them over. They go to the jail and collect them.
You totally skip recognizing the fact that despite all of this wonderful red state cooperation, the per capita number of illegals still on the loose in these red states, and the number among them that are violent criminals, still dwarfs that of MN, many times over. So if getting them off the streets was the goal, ICE would put more agents on the ground there to get the massive hoards that the locals just aren't finding and aren't handing over, for whatever reason.
Say I need money to survive and I am looking to steal it. Over behind door #1 there is a stash of gold. Behind door #2 there is a stash of silver. Behind door number 3 there is a stash of pennies. But I hate the person behind door #3. So... that's where I go to get my money? Makes no sense, unless all that drives you is hate and you're not really after the money at all, it's just your convenient excuse.
I don't know how we could confirm but I would bet the amount of ICA agents in Florida and Texas dwarfs the amount in Minnesota. Again, this all goes back to cooperation. You could have 10 ICE agents and if every time they stopped to pick someone up, a bunch of stupid Scandanavians were there to cause a scene, it makes that operation look like it is heavy handed.
The way things have gone down in Minnesota is completely the fault of Minnesota's leadership and we know this because we have 49 other examples, places that are even more left than Minnesota included, that aren't having near the issues.
That isn't to absolve poor behavior on ICE part in a few instances.
I spoke with President Trump this afternoon and appreciated the conversation. I expressed how much Minneapolis has benefited from our immigrant communities and was clear that my main ask is that Operation Metro Surge needs to end. The president agreed that the present situation cannot continue.
Some federal agents will begin leaving the area tomorrow, and I will continue pushing for the rest involved in this operation to go.
Minneapolis will continue to cooperate with state and federal law enforcement on real criminal investigations — but we will not participate in unconstitutional arrests of our neighbors or enforce federal immigration law. Violent criminals should be held accountable based on the crimes they commit, not based on where they are from.
I will continue working with all levels of government to keep our communities safe, keep crime down, and put Minneapolis residents first.
I plan to meet with Border Czar Tom Homan tomorrow to further discuss next steps.
This isn't complicated. ICE agents did disarm him. The very agent who took his gun fired the first shot. When it was over, a now-unarmed man who never threatened anyone was shot 10 TIMES AT POINT BLANK RANGE. An execution. An unjustified MURDER.
But I don't want ICE style vigilante justice turned onto the allegedly murdering ICE agents. They deserve their day in court, like anyone. Due process. Both for shit libs and for ICE Gestapo. For me. For you. That's America.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@unclemark why does an arrest vs conviction come into play if local PD apprehends an unlawful resident?
I'm not good with detaining/deporting the roofers and housekeepers simply based on their immigration status. Those convicted (not merely accused) of crimes are a different matter altogether. And spare me the "they broke the law when they came here" trope.
With this attitude, there is no reason to have immigration law at all.
You are essentially telling the people who are waiting in line to come here legally that it doesn’t matter, because once they’re here, you don’t want them deported regardless of how they got here. So they may as well just skip the process.
Doesn’t that seem pretty ridiculous to you?
At some point you have to face reality. These people are here. They're productive, law abiding members of the community, many/most with citizen children or family members. They harming no one, and benefiting many.
Kudos to Trump for locking down the border. I never imagined it could be done this effectively within the current law. Now that the inflow has stopped, lets deal with those who remain with some semblance of common sense and decency.
Or, and hear me out on this one, instead we could just go around shooting citizens to death in the back and face. Just saying, more than one direction we can go on this one.
@unclemark why does an arrest vs conviction come into play if local PD apprehends an unlawful resident?
I'm not good with detaining/deporting the roofers and housekeepers simply based on their immigration status. Those convicted (not merely accused) of crimes are a different matter altogether. And spare me the "they broke the law when they came here" trope.
With this attitude, there is no reason to have immigration law at all.
You are essentially telling the people who are waiting in line to come here legally that it doesn’t matter, because once they’re here, you don’t want them deported regardless of how they got here. So they may as well just skip the process.
Doesn’t that seem pretty ridiculous to you?
At some point you have to face reality. These people are here. They're productive, law abiding members of the community, many/most with citizen children or family members. They harming no one, and benefiting many.
Kudos to Trump for locking down the border. I never imagined it could be done this effectively within the current law. Now that the inflow has stopped, lets deal with those who remain with some semblance of common sense and decency.
Or, and hear me out on this one, instead we could just go around shooting citizens to death in the back and face. Just saying, more than one direction we can go on this one.
Ooh, a conspiracy, I can see why you automatically believe it.
I don't agree with the real reason, but here it is. Unlike those historical figures you listed, these protesters are trying to alert undocumented aliens a raid is happening. Whistle sounds carry and stand out, so someone around a corner a block away knows to hide.
