Because, per CNN, she was parked there for several minutes obstructing traffic (I. E. ICE) contra Shooter’s fairy tale account. She didn’t start to move until that officer said enough of this and tried to get her out of her car.So why does one need to rush the car to try to pull her out?
As for the agent going in front and behind, maybe he was examining the car? Trying to prevent her from taking off?
I absolutely agree this shooting should be investigated and it’s bad policy by the DOJ and DHS not to. But slow your roll on jumping to conclusions or you’re going to end up looking like Shooter.
Shoot/Don't shoot scenarios are almost impossible to train for. Those are instinctive split second decisions. In this case Good backed her vehicle placing the officer in front, made eye contact, then accelerated in a way to produce wheel spin. It happened so fast I’m surprised the officer was even able to shoot. On top of that, the deceased and her wife did more than protest, they both intentionally provoked all the officers. WTF were they thinking?
@co-hoosier That's absolutely incorrect. The state could 100 percent charge him for murder. The feds 1) can't stop a state investigations, and 2) can't stop an indictment and prosecution in the State of Minnesota. What's more there's no SOL for murder. Now the Feds can make things harder, and it would be one hell of an uphill battle, in part because of obstruction in garnering evidence and having to gather it themselves but there is no Federal immunity that prevents a State from charging murder COH.
...she was parked there for several minutes obstructing traffic (I. E. ICE)
Such severe "obstruction" that multiple ICE SUVs passed in front of her, while one other SUV (the shooter's) even passed behind her. All unimpeded. For the SUVs passing in front of her, some hesitated, but she even waved them through. The ICE shooter was simply annoyed, not at any obstruction but by being "disrespected" by someone with the gall to protest against his holiness.
Approached, she said "I'm not mad at you"
Then we get 3 kill shots, with the shooter heard saying AFTERWARD, "fucking bitch".
Quality training, there.
Should she have minorly impeded traffic, at all? No. Should she have been executed for it? No. Should she have willingly gotten out of her car to be kidnapped at gunpoint and roughed up, as many other protesters have been? No.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@shooter Kidnapped at gun point and roughed up 🤣. You Wokees are something. She should have been home with her kid not being another fat woke lesbian troublemaker. And if she just had to go out there stay on the sidewalk. Protest without causing problems. Do you think your kind will ever learn? Now multiple families are ruined over illegal Carlos. Beyond stupid.
@McMurt
Do you need links to the multiple verified instances of US citizens being detained by ICE after been transported at gunpoint to a facility and not being allowed to contact their families for days?
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@shooter Do you need links to the number of people arrested for impeding traffic and refusing to cooperate with authorities? Rightfully so. You break the law you get arrested. She broke the law. Resisted. Endangered law enforcement. But let’s side with the instigator. I can’t breathe. Hands up. Wheels right. The left is exhausting.
But slow your roll on jumping to conclusions or you’re going to end up looking like Shooter.
What conclusions? I have repeatedly said "if" referencing potential policy violations. I have said it is policy concerns I have, not that he committed homicide (a frequent thing said on interwebs).
There way was not blocked, the shooter's vehicle drove past and stopped as did others.
I have asked what de-escalation techniques ICE used. I have seen people trained in de-escalation that it did not occur. I am not a specialist, so what de-escalation was done? I don't know.
Is it normal to walk around a vehicle with your gun arm holding a cell phone (he switched arms part way through)? Why have a cell phone when ICE are supposed to have body cams? Yes, he wants to is the vehicle, you can get a license from an angle. A license, color, make, model all do not require passing directly in front or behind.
She made mistakes, that is clear. ICE always had the ability to show up at her house and take her into custody. Yet someone chose to pull her out of the car. Is that the right choice? Why was getting her later not a good option?
And, why was the doctor that lived in the immediate vicinity and the paramedics refused access to her? Is that really ICE policy?
Are any of my questions flagrantly wrong?
I linked a court ruling about Border Patrol intentionally placing themselves in a location to allow themselves to claim self-defense and fire. That is why knowing what policy is and did he follow it is important. A trial judge isn't going to be good at determining that. No one in government now is going to counter Trump/Noem. So how do we get the answers
One of our posters used to hate politicians interjecting themselves ahead of the system. My complaint is that interjection. We aren't going to find what was supposed to happen vs what happened because 1) if any fault falls to ICE the person stating that risks their job which 2) means if someone comes out explaining how it was all good could not be entirely trusted.
This should have been kept at a lower level until a legitimate investigation completed. I started off complaining that the comments destroy the investigation. You keep saying we can invest, or the state can sue, or the family. None of that is as valuable by experts in DoJ looking at policy, speaking to trainers, and reviewing footage.
How is it at all, in any way, controversial to say Trump/Noem/Vance made comments that taint a DoJ review. I am dropping out, but feel free to explain how those comments impact a government investigation. I will be curious how it makes such better.
@arthur-dent She broke the law then and there. That’s when you get your license run, search for active warrants, etc. Period. She sped off. Cops follow when that happens. They don’t say Eh well come back Tuesday.
You break the law you get arrested. She broke the law. Resisted. Endangered law enforcement. But let’s side with the instigator.
Not siding with her at all. I'm just saying she didn't deserve on-the-spot capital punishment.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@shooter I agree. I don't think she did either. But at some point these lunatics need to wake up. There are a million cops. They aren't going to be the best and brightest. You have to have some personal accountability and responsibility and follow the rules because if you don't you are at the mercy of Bubba. And that is on you. YOU put yourself in that position.
...you get your license run, search for active warrants, etc. Period... Cops follow when that happens.
ICE agents do not have the authority to do ANY of that. They are not traffic cops.
"You can't make someone listen to reason if they aren't willing to think"-- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
@shooter They can stop detain and arrest people. They don't need a judicial warrant to do so. And they can run your license.
@sharinincarmel are you sure. Here are some links
https://www.shirazilaw.com/can-ice-detain-u-s-citizens/
https://emplawfirm.com/can-a-us-citizen-be-detained-by-ice/
However, other sites do add they can arrest for obstruction. But they seem to have no authority to stop for crimes not directly related to immigration.
@arthur-dent Go directly to the ICE website. It's definitely grey and yes regarding obstruction but they can also "allege" this was part of an illegal pursuit. But the website talks about warrants, resisting, all of that stuff. What happens when the Mayor as in Minny says they will not assist, which occurred as well. Ideally you want local cops handling this stuff. But yes some of this stuff is muddy and definitely lends itself to interpretation.