@mommyshine5220 There are actually statutes that govern this stuff.  I’m sure Indiana has one.  Useful guidance as context for this stuff.

Should the driver be shot dead from a side window AFTER any conceivable threat to the LEO is gone?  Also... Link to any evidence that this person was a "protester"?  She had dropped off a child at school and was returning home, according to her ex-husband.

That's one interpretation... the other is she was finishing a 3 point turn, and her tires were turned to the right, to miss the agent, and she was just trying to get out of there.  There are also reports that immediately before the interaction, she was seen waving the agents truck through, to go around, as she was backing up.  And if you watch the entire clip, it seems like its just as possible that she got caught up behind the vehicle that stopped in front of her, and she was just trying to turn around and get out of the situation.

The tires were turned to the right... that's a fact.  Tires don't generally turn that far to the right without the driver turning the wheel.  So the driver had the intent to turn to the right, away from the agent.  Before the officer pulled his gun and fired, the car was also beginning to move to the right.

Now... should large groups of people be surrounding federal agents how they did prior to this incident?  Probably not, no matter the reasoning.  I think how ICE agents are conducting themselves is absolutely ridiculous.  And we're starting to see the antagonizing nature its creating.  But in the end, they are federal agents, heavily armed... surrounding and attempting to bully them, probably not a good idea.  

And then there's no way to get in to the head of the agent that shot the woman.  He's going to say he feared for his life.  I think the video shows that he probably shouldn't have felt that way... but in the end, that's what he'll contend...

I can look at this incident and have sensitivity on both sides.  Where I get out of shape on this, are the aggressive, obviously intentional and untruthful posts, quotes, rhetoric, etc... from our leaders in Washington.  Trump, Noem, others...  Its NOT a fact that she was trying to run down that agent.  In fact the videos show that its pretty unlikely she was.  So the speed to control the narrative, the hatred based words that they used... The incident itself is awful.  But how Trump and his cronies reacted to it... scary.  

@shooter The threat to the cop isn’t the only threat. If she’s going to race off like a lunatic etc.  Read the Indiana statute by way of example.  Finally we have a short clip. We don’t know the entire story.

@iunorth What is scary is the left policies that give rise to these conditions.  Yet again the left sets the house on fire and we don’t like how the right puts it out.

@sharinincarmel Definitely, I acknowledged the concerns about surrounding federal agents how they were.  Doesn't change the FACT that those tires were turned to the right, and she was pulling AWAY to the right.  Not trying to run down the agent.

And I'm in the camp that both Obama, and Trumps early efforts on immigration, were needed, and beneficial.  And Biden's were awful, and set us back.  Things DID need to be changed, and done, after Biden's Presidency.  But the ICE agents, how and what they're doing, it isn't American, it isn't how this should be done.  The ends don't justify these means.  And its pretty rich for "the right" to expect "the left" to just lie down and accept these Gestapo tactics... and yes, that's exactly what they are.  When a pretty large faction of "the right" holds their beliefs that the government should just leave them the phuck alone, and if they don't, they'll fight back with like force.

She wasn't running him down.  You know that and everyone else does.  The scariest part is our top officials, including the President, are lying about it, and trying to force the false narrative down everyone's throat.

Next move... when people protest over this... is to demonize the protesters.  Brilliant political move by our President, yet again... using hate to pit all of us against each other.  He's nothing if not consistent. 

Question for the lawyers on the board... As more of the video evidence is coming out... and its becoming more and more clear the agent that fired was NOT in the vehicles path, she had cleared him and was moving to the right when he unholstered and started firing... Is there any world where this dude can be arrested, charged, and convicted of murder?

@iunorth People are protesting against people who broke the law.  Follow the rules and none of this happens. The left brought this on themselves.  Ideology over governance. And yes this is overreach imo on the part of Trump and the Ice agent’s were most likely unnecessary but this is all predictable when you set fire to the house.  Biden, Walz, woke, Mamdani defund will continue to create problems.  I don’t blame law enforcement for being reckless in cleaning it up. I expect it. These aren’t the best and the brightest.

@iunorth 

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.066

@sharinincarmel They can't murder people.  That should be a line for all of us.  And the President shouldn't lie about it, and try to brainwash an entire population.  I know there are no lines for that man... but damn.

Even IF she was a key instigator and planner for this protest.  Even if she was intentionally blocking that ICE truck for a bit.  She was still moving her vehicle to leave the scene.  Video evidence has made that perfectly clear.  All the fevered rhetoric, like what you're using, shouldn't overshadow that an ICE agent just shot and KILLED someone that was trying to leave the situation.

All of this is worst case on her part... what if she had just dropped her kids off at school, and was just on her way home and got caught up in the middle of all this?  What then?  I suspect because of Trumps rush to judgement, that it won't matter for her or her family.

These means just aren't justifiable any more... 

Posted by: @iunorth

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Question for the lawyers on the board... As more of the video evidence is coming out... and its becoming more and more clear the agent that fired was NOT in the vehicles path, she had cleared him and was moving to the right when he unholstered and started firing... Is there any world where this dude can be arrested, charged, and convicted of murder?

The state would have to defeat immunity, which I think would require them proving the officer who shot subjectively didn't reasonably think it was necessary, which is tough to do.

@sharinincarmel Yep... I get the laws... she wasn't a threat when she turned her tires to the right, and started pulling away.  You know that, most everyone knows that.  She was clear of the firing agent when he unholstered, for God's sake.

On the flip side of all this... if this lady wasn't apart of the protest, and was just coming back from dropping her kids off and got caught up in this... then its still murder, but the group that surrounded the ICE agents originally, and were beating on their vehicles... they're complicit in all this as well.  

I hate the ICE Gestapo tactics... HATE it... but the answer is not to surround them and bully them.  It just isn't.  Even though that's what they're doing in many cases.  They're federal agents, heavily armed... its not gonna end well to do what this group did yesterday to them.  

Posted by: @iunorth

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Question for the lawyers on the board... As more of the video evidence is coming out... and its becoming more and more clear the agent that fired was NOT in the vehicles path, she had cleared him and was moving to the right when he unholstered and started firing... Is there any world where this dude can be arrested, charged, and convicted of murder?

To me, this is bigger than one man’s decision. Maybe all ICE agents don’t need to be carrying guns at all times?

I support having ICE agents going after violent criminals who are illegally in this country.  Many americans do. It's largely why Trump won the election, though without my vote.

I do not support ICE agents going after American citizens who annoy them by not being MAGA cultists or now bowing down to their presumed greatness. 

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A quick summary, as it seems to me:

A woman was out on a snowy day dropping a kid off at school.  She then was returning to her neighborhood. 

For whatever reason, she apparently unwisely decided to make a U turn in the street (bad decision). Halfway through making this 3 point turn, she saw cars coming in the direction she had been traveling.  She backed up a few feet and waved one or two cars through. 

Another car then came up and seemingly the officers were of the attitude of "you can't just wave us through, you are in our way, don't you know who we are???"

They then charged her car and an unidentifiable masked man started yanking on her door handle and cursing at her to leave the safety of her car.

She then panicked and decided to drive away. Bad decision #2.

Then one of the officers, obviously with very poor training, makes the stupid decision of stepping at least partially in the path of her car, something that law enforcement is trained NOT to do, ever.  Then this LEO pulled his weapon, fired a shot through the windshield, and stepped fully out of harms way. Never losing his footing, never "dragged", perhaps never even struck at all (looks like he pushed off the the front corner of her car with his arms or hip).

Then said LEO was royally pissed off and so he made the worst decision of all, a decision to fire two kills shots through a side window.