Thank you for your apology and it is accepted.@bradstevens look at the facts 11-13 year olds were in the group according to Google.
I think there is a fear that Trump IS in there more than people want, so the claim will be it was a 15 year old so nothing to worry about. But again, even if 17, what amounts to forced prostitution is dead wrong. Hell, even if 30.
Were there 11-13 year olds as Google AI says? I am not saying you think it is ok, I am saying anything you want to call it is fine so long as a society we don't think, "close enough, no harm no foul". And yes, I think that is what some want to do.
Young girls are developing secondary sexual characteristics at younger ages. So yes, there are 14-year olds that look 17 or 18. That is why we need to be very careful on this.
Call it what we want. I think being labelled a pedo has at least a little ability to try to convince older people from dipping into the mid teen pool. Maybe not.
But from what I have read, these ladies didn't all know what they were getting into. Bad enough with an adult, worse with a minor.
Let's move it from Trump, if Obama were in there some would go, "well, she was 16 so it isn't that bad" and I find that wrong.
Even pre-teens can and do have breasts and could pass for older. What cutoff is there for you.
I certainly don't mean to mean YOU are trying to make it OK, just that suddenly there was a concerted movement to stop calling Epstein a pedophile, that had been used for a long time. My posting is undoubtedly impacted by trying to post while watching our next opponent and full of NyQuil for my stupid cold. If I implied you specifically, I apologize.
But as a society, how much should we try to protect people from an Epstein at 9, 11, 13, 15, 17? Is it a sliding scale where 17 is a misdemeanor, maybe 15 too?
Should we vote for someone who visited a 17 year old, 16, 15?
We want IDs for voting, something I have no issues with, so maybe request an ID before sex if there is any possible doubt?
Maybe as a society we should make 17 year olds have consent, but again I am not sure these ladies had consent ability even if adults. But if we do, what about the 16-year old?
I think all of those things you bring up are complicated. That's kinda my point in just recognizing the fact that there is a big difference between men who find 5 year olds (or 11 year olds) sexually attractive and those that find some 16-17 year olds sexually attractive.
I don't care about Epstein or Trump, I'm talking in general. If Trump had sex with an underage girl, prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. (The notion that anyone is ever going to assemble enough evidence to even charge Trump with sex with an underage girl in connection with Epstein at this point is pretty far fetched, by the way.) But I think it is wrong to call someone—anyone, even if it was Trump—who has sex with a fully physically developed 17-year-old a pedophile. That's just not what the word means.
In terms of differentiation, I'd support the death penalty for any adult having sex with any pre-pubescent person. I would not support that penalty for someone who had sex with a 16 to 17-year-old girl who "consented," although I would support jail time in certain situations (not for a 19 year old with a 17 year old, for example). So I think that's a big difference.
@bradstevens so now we need to define pre-pubescent. Girls are having periods 6 months earlier today than before. According to link below, more girls are having their cycle before 9. So I have a serious question mark about that.
I grant 17 is seriously close to 18. I do wonder, as men, if us deciding "at what age does a girl have a body that could make a man say 'wow' is sexist. So we need to really define pre-pubescent well. Is it a specific age regardless of menstruation? Is it menstruation? Is it a combo?
I get very well a 19 year old and a 17 year old is a totally different animal. Will you grant a 17 year old lured into sex work by a master manipulator to sleep with 40-year olds is different something too.
I think the problem has been I am using this specific case study. He lured girls, some maybe as young as 11, into a life of prostitution to fully grown men with decades of age difference. This appears to mostly not be a case of a 17 year old sleeping with a 19.i am quite fine to have a 2 to 3 year allowance.
I also agree, no one has enough evidence for this to result in conviction. Just because someone hung out with Epstein does not mean guilt, I have said that a long time.
So we have Epstein and Maxwell. That is it. Anything that makes what they did seem like maybe it wasn't so bad concerns me. It was bad, very bad.
I haven't followed his story that closely. But I saw the recently released photos today, and it's disgusting. Writing passages of Lolita onto girls is next level creepy. Email exchanges about buying girls from Russia for $1000. I'm glad he's dead.@bradstevens so now we need to define pre-pubescent. Girls are having periods 6 months earlier today than before. According to link below, more girls are having their cycle before 9. So I have a serious question mark about that.
I grant 17 is seriously close to 18. I do wonder, as men, if us deciding "at what age does a girl have a body that could make a man say 'wow' is sexist. So we need to really define pre-pubescent well. Is it a specific age regardless of menstruation? Is it menstruation? Is it a combo?
I get very well a 19 year old and a 17 year old is a totally different animal. Will you grant a 17 year old lured into sex work by a master manipulator to sleep with 40-year olds is different something too.
I think the problem has been I am using this specific case study. He lured girls, some maybe as young as 11, into a life of prostitution to fully grown men with decades of age difference. This appears to mostly not be a case of a 17 year old sleeping with a 19.i am quite fine to have a 2 to 3 year allowance.
I also agree, no one has enough evidence for this to result in conviction. Just because someone hung out with Epstein does not mean guilt, I have said that a long time.
So we have Epstein and Maxwell. That is it. Anything that makes what they did seem like maybe it wasn't so bad concerns me. It was bad, very bad.
Pics of Gates and Clinton (in a hot tub) with women whose faces are blacked out. If blacked out because they were under aged, I expect the Democratic Party to ostracize them and treat them as pariahs, yes?
Pics of Chomsky with Epstein on a private plane. Not a good look for the strident anti-capitalist.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/epstein-files-photos-house-democrats-estate/
Pics of Gates and Clinton (in a hot tub) with women whose faces are blacked out. If blacked out because they were under aged, I expect the Democratic Party to ostracize them and treat them as pariahs, yes?
I completely agree.
I am having a hard time not wanting to treat them like pariahs anyway. People have an obligation to report children in danger. Did anyone of these people ever call the FBI and say, "hey it may be nothing but this guy has really surrounded himself with minor girls"? If Trump realized "he likes the young"*, others had to notice it too.
* I have no idea how young Trump thought they were. But somewhere people saw how young.
I haven't followed his story that closely. But I saw the recently released photos today, and it's disgusting. Writing passages of Lolita onto girls is next level creepy. Email exchanges about buying girls from Russia for $1000. I'm glad he's dead.@bradstevens so now we need to define pre-pubescent. Girls are having periods 6 months earlier today than before. According to link below, more girls are having their cycle before 9. So I have a serious question mark about that.
I grant 17 is seriously close to 18. I do wonder, as men, if us deciding "at what age does a girl have a body that could make a man say 'wow' is sexist. So we need to really define pre-pubescent well. Is it a specific age regardless of menstruation? Is it menstruation? Is it a combo?
I get very well a 19 year old and a 17 year old is a totally different animal. Will you grant a 17 year old lured into sex work by a master manipulator to sleep with 40-year olds is different something too.
I think the problem has been I am using this specific case study. He lured girls, some maybe as young as 11, into a life of prostitution to fully grown men with decades of age difference. This appears to mostly not be a case of a 17 year old sleeping with a 19.i am quite fine to have a 2 to 3 year allowance.
I also agree, no one has enough evidence for this to result in conviction. Just because someone hung out with Epstein does not mean guilt, I have said that a long time.
So we have Epstein and Maxwell. That is it. Anything that makes what they did seem like maybe it wasn't so bad concerns me. It was bad, very bad.
Pics of Gates and Clinton (in a hot tub) with women whose faces are blacked out. If blacked out because they were under aged, I expect the Democratic Party to ostracize them and treat them as pariahs, yes?
Pics of Chomsky with Epstein on a private plane. Not a good look for the strident anti-capitalist.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/epstein-files-photos-house-democrats-estate/
I don't understand why this has to be a political thing.
If dudes did things with underage girls, they should be arrested and thrown in a jail cell forever. I don't care if it's Bill Clinton, Donald Trump or the Pope.
This thing smells like they wanted a narrative to come out... dems are the bad guys. I'm more then certain it was people from both sides of the aisle that did things to those girls. They should pay for that.
I haven't followed his story that closely. But I saw the recently released photos today, and it's disgusting. Writing passages of Lolita onto girls is next level creepy. Email exchanges about buying girls from Russia for $1000. I'm glad he's dead.@bradstevens so now we need to define pre-pubescent. Girls are having periods 6 months earlier today than before. According to link below, more girls are having their cycle before 9. So I have a serious question mark about that.
I grant 17 is seriously close to 18. I do wonder, as men, if us deciding "at what age does a girl have a body that could make a man say 'wow' is sexist. So we need to really define pre-pubescent well. Is it a specific age regardless of menstruation? Is it menstruation? Is it a combo?
I get very well a 19 year old and a 17 year old is a totally different animal. Will you grant a 17 year old lured into sex work by a master manipulator to sleep with 40-year olds is different something too.
I think the problem has been I am using this specific case study. He lured girls, some maybe as young as 11, into a life of prostitution to fully grown men with decades of age difference. This appears to mostly not be a case of a 17 year old sleeping with a 19.i am quite fine to have a 2 to 3 year allowance.
I also agree, no one has enough evidence for this to result in conviction. Just because someone hung out with Epstein does not mean guilt, I have said that a long time.
So we have Epstein and Maxwell. That is it. Anything that makes what they did seem like maybe it wasn't so bad concerns me. It was bad, very bad.
Pics of Gates and Clinton (in a hot tub) with women whose faces are blacked out. If blacked out because they were under aged, I expect the Democratic Party to ostracize them and treat them as pariahs, yes?
Pics of Chomsky with Epstein on a private plane. Not a good look for the strident anti-capitalist.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/epstein-files-photos-house-democrats-estate/
I don't understand why this has to be a political thing.
If dudes did things with underage girls, they should be arrested and thrown in a jail cell forever. I don't care if it's Bill Clinton, Donald Trump or the Pope.
This thing smells like they wanted a narrative to come out... dems are the bad guys. I'm more then certain it was people from both sides of the aisle that did things to those girls. They should pay for that.
Massie is one Republican who isn't being political about it.
Rep. Thomas Massie criticizes DOJ’s Jeffrey Epstein files release
@boogie Clinton is in pictures with an underage girl in a pool and hot tub while hanging out with a known child groomer. What do you think he was doing? This is the same guy who stuck a cigar in his interns p#ssy in the Oval Office as President by the way.
The question you should ask yourself is why the MSM isn't taking about it and going after Bill. The reason is because they are political and protect their own. It's unfortunately always political.
That's just wrong. That picture is all over the media. I've seen it a dozen times, at least. I despised Bill Clinton, I thought he should have resigned for fooling around with one of the most junior personnel in the White House. Then he should have been convicted by the Senate after being impeached for obstruction of justice and perjury. I considered him the most dishonest and worst person ever to be elected President. Our current President makes him look like an honest choir boy in comparison.@boogie Clinton is in pictures with an underage girl in a pool and hot tub while hanging out with a known child groomer. What do you think he was doing? This is the same guy who stuck a cigar in his interns p#ssy in the Oval Office as President by the way.
The question you should ask yourself is why the MSM isn't taking about it and going after Bill. The reason is because they are political and protect their own. It's unfortunately always political.
That's just wrong. That picture is all over the media. I've seen it a dozen times, at least. I despised Bill Clinton, I thought he should have resigned for fooling around with one of the most junior personnel in the White House. Then he should have been convicted by the Senate after being impeached for obstruction of justice and perjury. I considered him the most dishonest and worst person ever to be elected President. Our current President makes him look like an honest choir boy in comparison.@boogie Clinton is in pictures with an underage girl in a pool and hot tub while hanging out with a known child groomer. What do you think he was doing? This is the same guy who stuck a cigar in his interns p#ssy in the Oval Office as President by the way.
The question you should ask yourself is why the MSM isn't taking about it and going after Bill. The reason is because they are political and protect their own. It's unfortunately always political.
You're pathetic.
This thing smells like they wanted a narrative to come out... dems are the bad guys. I'm more then certain it was people from both sides of the aisle that did things to those girls. They should pay for that.
It appears that any photos of people other than Clinton and other lefty elites aren't being released (yet?) or have been redacted. Shocking.
Correct.
LOL. Impeachment is child's play. Removal is close to impossible.
This thing smells like they wanted a narrative to come out... dems are the bad guys. I'm more then certain it was people from both sides of the aisle that did things to those girls. They should pay for that.
It appears that any photos of people other than Clinton and other lefty elites aren't being released (yet?) or have been redacted. Shocking.
If you weren't a partisan hack you would have already figured out the worst pictures are of leftists, specifically Clinton. If they had dirt on Trump they would have released them when Biden was President and Democrat control the senate and House. Or just leaked them. Keep being shocked 😱
Because I recognize the extreme dishonesty and outrageously poor character of our current President? Frankly, your post is hypocritical in that you're happy to criticize Clinton for his poor character (which I have done much of myself) but excuse the poor character of our current President. My principles are consistent and yours are situational. You don't see that?That's just wrong. That picture is all over the media. I've seen it a dozen times, at least. I despised Bill Clinton, I thought he should have resigned for fooling around with one of the most junior personnel in the White House. Then he should have been convicted by the Senate after being impeached for obstruction of justice and perjury. I considered him the most dishonest and worst person ever to be elected President. Our current President makes him look like an honest choir boy in comparison.@boogie Clinton is in pictures with an underage girl in a pool and hot tub while hanging out with a known child groomer. What do you think he was doing? This is the same guy who stuck a cigar in his interns p#ssy in the Oval Office as President by the way.
The question you should ask yourself is why the MSM isn't taking about it and going after Bill. The reason is because they are political and protect their own. It's unfortunately always political.
You're pathetic.
Because I recognize the extreme dishonesty and outrageously poor character of our current President? Frankly, your post is hypocritical in that you're happy to criticize Clinton for his poor character (which I have done much of myself) but excuse the poor character of our current President. My principles are consistent and yours are situational. You don't see that?That's just wrong. That picture is all over the media. I've seen it a dozen times, at least. I despised Bill Clinton, I thought he should have resigned for fooling around with one of the most junior personnel in the White House. Then he should have been convicted by the Senate after being impeached for obstruction of justice and perjury. I considered him the most dishonest and worst person ever to be elected President. Our current President makes him look like an honest choir boy in comparison.@boogie Clinton is in pictures with an underage girl in a pool and hot tub while hanging out with a known child groomer. What do you think he was doing? This is the same guy who stuck a cigar in his interns p#ssy in the Oval Office as President by the way.
The question you should ask yourself is why the MSM isn't taking about it and going after Bill. The reason is because they are political and protect their own. It's unfortunately always political.
You're pathetic.
It's because you're trying to downplay Clinton being a child predator. I don't care about poor character in comparison to child predators. One is much worse than the other. The fact that you think Trump's poor character is worse than Clinton messing with underage girls is why you're pathetic.
I didn't and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I sure as hell didn't defend Clinton in any way. I still think he's despicable. I was obviously talking about Clinton and Lewinsky and about Clinton and Trump's overall dishonest and poor character. Both had numerous affairs and shady business dealings as just a couple of many reasons their character is extremely poor. Of course, a child predator is the lowest of the low. We don't know that Clinton was messing with underaged girls, but if he was, I'll add that to the reasons I think Clinton is a loathsome person. We don't know who the redacted woman was. We don't know she was underaged. You're jumping to conclusions, which is why I ignored your declarative statement about him being in a hot tub with an underaged woman. I actually thought you were smart enough to realize that picture showed no such thing as far as we know. You do realize there are many pictures that have been released that have Trump with women whose faces were blacked out. You didn't jump to conclusions then, why is that? Pathetic hypocrisy? If either of them was involved sexually with any underaged women, I will condemn him or them. It's not even a question.Because I recognize the extreme dishonesty and outrageously poor character of our current President? Frankly, your post is hypocritical in that you're happy to criticize Clinton for his poor character (which I have done much of myself) but excuse the poor character of our current President. My principles are consistent and yours are situational. You don't see that?That's just wrong. That picture is all over the media. I've seen it a dozen times, at least. I despised Bill Clinton, I thought he should have resigned for fooling around with one of the most junior personnel in the White House. Then he should have been convicted by the Senate after being impeached for obstruction of justice and perjury. I considered him the most dishonest and worst person ever to be elected President. Our current President makes him look like an honest choir boy in comparison.@boogie Clinton is in pictures with an underage girl in a pool and hot tub while hanging out with a known child groomer. What do you think he was doing? This is the same guy who stuck a cigar in his interns p#ssy in the Oval Office as President by the way.
The question you should ask yourself is why the MSM isn't taking about it and going after Bill. The reason is because they are political and protect their own. It's unfortunately always political.
You're pathetic.
It's because you're trying to downplay Clinton being a child predator. I don't care about poor character in comparison to child predators. One is much worse than the other. The fact that you think Trump's poor character is worse than Clinton messing with underage girls is why you're pathetic.
Frankly, I don't think at this point that either Trump or Clinton was involved sexually with those women. I know that both were in testimony at the Maxwell trial and the testimony was that neither were involved in the abuse - at least according to those witnesses. I don't believe any of the then underaged women has come forward to say that either abused her. There was the one that accused Trump of misappropriate behavior, but she withdrew that and then killed herself. So, at this point we have no evidence that Trump or Clinton diddled with underaged girls. Ogled them? Sure, I'm confident that both did.