...Well, if we use 'the history of college coaches' as our search space, sure.Pitino pretty well hit the ground running (might've hit a few other things also) every stop he's been.
I meant in the vaunted 'Dusty May' era, since so many seem to think if we'd grabbed Dusty two years ago we'd be as good as Michigan. Who else in our hiring cycle? (Plus a year or two, NIL era?)
Pitino probably would've though. One or two others who moved. But only using Pitino's most recent move in 2023 to St. Johns, he was 20-13, 11-9 for his first year. That doesn't blow away our first year so far under Devries, does it?
@openwheel Well, just looking at the numbers, maybe not, but his hire created EXCITEMENT in that program which was followed by momentum. I think that was a result of Pitino's coaching style and the upward trajectory (IIRC they started out that year horridly, then peaked at the end) that was present. Everyone knew that Pitino was going to kill it his 2nd year. I'm not sure we are seeing that sort of momentum, or anything that suggests that we will, to carry on to next year. Numbers are numbers, but what I look at it is the product on the floor. When we play our absolute best, then I like what I see this year, but we have only taken command, down the stretch, of maybe ONE meaningful game all year long (Oregon). I'm not calling for CDD to be fired. I think he's the best coach we've had since Sampson, and he's a better caretaker of the program than Sampson was. I do not think CDD first year measures up to Mark Pope's first year at UK, yet to be determined if he matched U of L's first year under Kelsey.
Yeah, I know.
Pitino has been one of the best for a long time. So yeah, be nice if we have or get a guy like that. Minus some of the behavior.
I guess we shall see. Three or four games this year took the wind out of our sails every time we seemed to have something going.
@hoosiers94 Dusty May was THE name in the coaching pool that year. To get him, you were going to have to make promises and provide resources. I don't know, but my sense is that CDD probably had less in financial support and NIL to work with than his predecessor, and a lot of support was swinging to football and it was a terrible year to have to deal with those circumstances and recruit an entire roster, because from what I saw NIL deals jumped 25-50% last year. A perfect storm of bad circumstances for CDD.
I'm not arguing that CDD is going to get it done here, I'm just saying the circumstances I believe were very different between UM's hiring of May and IU's of CDD. I think he did OK roster-wise, and just seriously neglected post players for the B10. I'm more interested to see what the roster he puts together for next year looks like. If he he short changes post depth again, and intends to "play small" I think that will spell trouble. OK to make a mistake, but you better learn from it.
The Dusty May crowd in meme form...
A good friend will bail you out of jail, but your best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying "that was f***ing awesome"
@hoosiers94 Dusty May was THE name in the coaching pool that year. To get him, you were going to have to make promises and provide resources. I don't know, but my sense is that CDD probably had less in financial support and NIL to work with than his predecessor, and a lot of support was swinging to football and it was a terrible year to have to deal with those circumstances and recruit an entire roster, because from what I saw NIL deals jumped 25-50% last year. A perfect storm of bad circumstances for CDD.
I'm not arguing that CDD is going to get it done here, I'm just saying the circumstances I believe were very different between UM's hiring of May and IU's of CDD. I think he did OK roster-wise, and just seriously neglected post players for the B10. I'm more interested to see what the roster he puts together for next year looks like. If he he short changes post depth again, and intends to "play small" I think that will spell trouble. OK to make a mistake, but you better learn from it.
I can agree with that.
I guess my point all along and have made clear is I don't think he's going to get it done. Not even close. So in a year or two or three, whenever the administration gets the sense to move on , we will be at the same crossroads we were a year ago and 5 years ago... hapless results , middle of the pack and searching for a new coach. Except we will a little deeper in the proverbial abyss we find ourselves in now. It's like a Twilight Zone episode. And if he some how proves me wrong ,and that's also a matter of perspective , well I'll be pleasantly surprised and you all will get to punk me and make me eat crow. And that I can live with ...
Pitino pretty well hit the ground running (might've hit a few other things also) every stop he's been.So hire Dusty.
Who are the other coaches with the fast rebuilds?
But yes, roster is a bit of a concern. I just don't believe many other coaches out there would get much if any more out of our team this year. Who's fault is that, Coach DeVries for the roster. But there are other factors, for one who was available.
UK first year: 14-14, 7-9 (banned from postseason but wouldn't have made it)
UL first year: 19-13, 8-8 (NIT)
Iona first year: 12-6, 6-3 (bounced first round during covid year)
SJ first year: 20-13, 11-9 (No NCAAT berth, declined NIT)
Pitino is a great coach and I'm sure would have done very well here if hired at any point in his career but the above isn't anything above what DDV is doing in year 1.
Pitino pretty well hit the ground running (might've hit a few other things also) every stop he's been.So hire Dusty.
Who are the other coaches with the fast rebuilds?
But yes, roster is a bit of a concern. I just don't believe many other coaches out there would get much if any more out of our team this year. Who's fault is that, Coach DeVries for the roster. But there are other factors, for one who was available.
UK first year: 14-14, 7-9 (banned from postseason but wouldn't have made it)
UL first year: 19-13, 8-8 (NIT)
Iona first year: 12-6, 6-3 (bounced first round during covid year)
SJ first year: 20-13, 11-9 (No NCAAT berth, declined NIT)
Pitino is a great coach and I'm sure would have done very well here if hired at any point in his career but the above isn't anything above what DDV is doing in year 1.
sans a payroll
not to mention prior to those mentioned he took Providence to the FF... sounds a little like Dusty
@hoosiers94 He had a payroll at Kentucky and Louisville... it just had to be done under the table back then.
@hoosiers94 It just seems overly negative... is where most of the flack comes from. I think this upcoming offseason and next year will give everyone quite a lot more evidence to make more educated guesses on the likelihood that CDD will win B10s and compete for FFs, at IU.
As someone that tries to stay balanced, and see both sides of all these things... its been frustrating that our fan base and way more posters than just you, aren't seeing or acknowledging that this could be the best basketball Indiana has played since 2016. Why, on earth, aren't people more excited about that? Its not perfect. Its way too inconsistent. It surely isn't competitive for a B10 title or a FF... But holy hell... Lamar Wilkerson is one of the more fun players to watch we've had...ever. Tucker is a really, really good basketball player. Conor Enright should be a fan favorite type player. And contrary to your label, Darian DeVries is NOT a doorknob. Archie was a doorknob. Woodson, on the sidelines, was a doorknob, and he was a notoriously lazy coach. Crean was a manic spaz. DeVries is a fine amount of even keeled, animated, fiery, funny. Yet all 3 of those Coaches had A LOT more support and excitement in their first years than CDD has? Its weird, to me.
I have a concern that you could end up being right. Altman, McDermott... his mentors... haven't really ever challenged at doing anything great. But that doesn't mean that he won't. And I don't think there's really any actual evidence, yet, from his Drake or WVU days, that he isn't capable of it.
Other than the TJD/JHS season, you might be right ... but DD is competing against eight years of Archie and Woody. In any case, it's a sad state of affairs when one of the better teams in the last 10 years equates to the Bubble. Mediocrity U.posters than just you, aren't seeing or acknowledging that this could be the best basketball Indiana has played since 2016
Pitino pretty well hit the ground running (might've hit a few other things also) every stop he's been.So hire Dusty.
Who are the other coaches with the fast rebuilds?
But yes, roster is a bit of a concern. I just don't believe many other coaches out there would get much if any more out of our team this year. Who's fault is that, Coach DeVries for the roster. But there are other factors, for one who was available.
UK first year: 14-14, 7-9 (banned from postseason but wouldn't have made it)
UL first year: 19-13, 8-8 (NIT)
Iona first year: 12-6, 6-3 (bounced first round during covid year)
SJ first year: 20-13, 11-9 (No NCAAT berth, declined NIT)
Pitino is a great coach and I'm sure would have done very well here if hired at any point in his career but the above isn't anything above what DDV is doing in year 1.
sans a payroll
not to mention prior to those mentioned he took Providence to the FF... sounds a little like Dusty
He has huge resources at St. John's. Every bit as good as ours currently.
Pitino pretty well hit the ground running (might've hit a few other things also) every stop he's been.So hire Dusty.
Who are the other coaches with the fast rebuilds?
But yes, roster is a bit of a concern. I just don't believe many other coaches out there would get much if any more out of our team this year. Who's fault is that, Coach DeVries for the roster. But there are other factors, for one who was available.
UK first year: 14-14, 7-9 (banned from postseason but wouldn't have made it)
UL first year: 19-13, 8-8 (NIT)
Iona first year: 12-6, 6-3 (bounced first round during covid year)
SJ first year: 20-13, 11-9 (No NCAAT berth, declined NIT)
Pitino is a great coach and I'm sure would have done very well here if hired at any point in his career but the above isn't anything above what DDV is doing in year 1.
sans a payroll
not to mention prior to those mentioned he took Providence to the FF... sounds a little like Dusty
He has huge resources at St. John's. Every bit as good as ours currently.
his first year I would argue NIL was not in full swing. Last year.. Woodys last year was the first year of the Wild West.
I wish these budgets were published.
With this roster, DeVries has squeezed every ounce out of what he has. The style of play has been enjoyable to watch; guys are playing hard, sharing the ball, and shooting it well. That said, as others have pointed out, the roster itself is flawed, and that ultimately falls on DeVries. If he can’t accurately evaluate talent and build a balanced, competitive roster, then his tenure here will be a short one.
However, IF he can elevate the talent level and build a properly balanced roster, while still squeezing every ounce out of his players, then championships could follow.
@hoosiers94 It just seems overly negative... is where most of the flack comes from. I think this upcoming offseason and next year will give everyone quite a lot more evidence to make more educated guesses on the likelihood that CDD will win B10s and compete for FFs, at IU.
As someone that tries to stay balanced, and see both sides of all these things... its been frustrating that our fan base and way more posters than just you, aren't seeing or acknowledging that this could be the best basketball Indiana has played since 2016. Why, on earth, aren't people more excited about that? Its not perfect. Its way too inconsistent. It surely isn't competitive for a B10 title or a FF... But holy hell... Lamar Wilkerson is one of the more fun players to watch we've had...ever. Tucker is a really, really good basketball player. Conor Enright should be a fan favorite type player. And contrary to your label, Darian DeVries is NOT a doorknob. Archie was a doorknob. Woodson, on the sidelines, was a doorknob, and he was a notoriously lazy coach. Crean was a manic spaz. DeVries is a fine amount of even keeled, animated, fiery, funny. Yet all 3 of those Coaches had A LOT more support and excitement in their first years than CDD has? Its weird, to me.
I have a concern that you could end up being right. Altman, McDermott... his mentors... haven't really ever challenged at doing anything great. But that doesn't mean that he won't. And I don't think there's really any actual evidence, yet, from his Drake or WVU days, that he isn't capable of it.
your answer is in your reply. The best season we've had since 2016. Think about that. A decade of futility ... and between 2000 and 2016 only maybe 3-4 seasons to be stoked about ...:
a decade and we are squarely on the bubble. One of the biggest budgets in P4 and squarely on the bubble. A roster which a big was not addressed. And you all keep saying well if he doesn't address it next year. Why didn't he address it this year. Don't tell me the price was too high. The price was too high not to.
His mentors ..lifetime middle of the packers at that.
is he better than Woody and Archie ..: yes he is ...
have you met him? I have. He's a nice guy but he's not charismatic... does he have some emotion on the bench .. starting to have more yes. But he does not own the room when he walks in... did you ever meet RMK..: I had the pleasure ..several times. He owned the room. Met many other coaches that were winners , which I can list if you want. They owned the room , and that is how you get a roster , not just a check book. So am I negative at this point, yep sure am, cause I've heard this song and dance for 26 years. Wait til next year. Or we have a squad this year .. we are gonna do it this year. Well we have to rebuild this year but wait til next year. And next year has never come and with the exception of a couple of seasons with Crean and the run in 2002 , we haven't done a thing.
So again I'll believe it when I see it. Believe me if he executes and turns this thing into something I'll recent and own my criticism... IF
and where are those who discredit Dusty's run to the F4 Less lucky than Davis'