i think the winning thing is overstated.
if i'm a player, i'm looking at money and development more than winning. michigan won the estrella recruitment because of money and their development of bigs. sure, winning the title helped, but estrella's going to michigan for may's tutelage and money.
iu won nothing under woodson but had strong track record with bigs and money to spend...hence oumar ballo and kel'el ware.
edit: my main thesis here is that it would be surprising to see a guy like estrella turn down 4m from someone else just to take 3-3.5m without the development aspect of the recruitment from michigan...them winning a title is the cherry on top but if iu were to give him 750k more, i think he'd be at iu.
@mushroomgod My affection for who? Ace Glass or Darren Harris? You wrote "Darren Glass"?
If you mean Darren Harris, I don't have affection for him. I wrote a month ago that I thought he was likely to portal and that IU had a connection and he'd be an option. I was right. There are reasons to like Harris (high school pedigree, was at least a small part of the rotation on a really good team, shot well from three when given consistent minutes). I would have others higher on my "wish list" but I think Harris could be part of a decent group of guards at IU if they landed him.
Harris. Don't like him as a projected starter, as I just see mediocrity. 30.8% career on 3s (33.3% this year); 48.8 on 2s (45.5% this year); 3.4 rebounds every 40M this year; so...mediocre scorer & rebounder. Also, mediocre totals on assists. OTOH, he did shoot 76.9% on FTs this year and he doesn't turn the ball over. I remember seeing a post about him that indicated he was an early bloomer in HS and just hasn't developed. Does something like that seem more likely than the Duke coaching staff just not developing his abilities? So.......ok, as a potential 6th or 7th man, but not ok as a projected starter. Also....he seems very much to be a lesser version of Mustaf, doesn't he? Same size, same role? And there a million wings out there. a lot with better credentials. To me, he is a settle. 2 years is no advantage, as hopefully we have better wings coming in. One good thing about him tho---Burton likes him. If he helps us get Burton, he's worth taking.
I do like Mustaf. Definite starter for us if we get him, and probably pretty significantly underrated at 87 on the 247 rankings.
i think the winning thing is overstated.
if i'm a player, i'm looking at money and development more than winning. michigan won the estrella recruitment because of money and their development of bigs. sure, winning the title helped, but estrella's going to michigan for may's tutelage and money.
iu won nothing under woodson but had strong track record with bigs and money to spend...hence oumar ballo and kel'el ware.
edit: my main thesis here is that it would be surprising to see a guy like estrella turn down 4m from someone else just to take 3-3.5m without the development aspect of the recruitment from michigan...them winning a title is the cherry on top but if iu were to give him 750k more, i think he'd be at iu.
I think you are looking at it incorrectly. The “winning thing” may not matter to everyone. Of course there are players that don’t care about it, while it may be very important to others. The thing is that it dictates the type of players you get and what is important to them.
if IU is not a destination for players that want to win, you won’t get players that value winning.
Some day there will be a former coach or insider tell about all that actually goes on in the portal. That may well be a good read for NCAA basketball fanatics. I don't doubt that money is the major factor for recruiting players but many players are also concerned with fit, coach, winning ,the school, location, etc.
i think the winning thing is overstated.
if i'm a player, i'm looking at money and development more than winning. michigan won the estrella recruitment because of money and their development of bigs. sure, winning the title helped, but estrella's going to michigan for may's tutelage and money.
iu won nothing under woodson but had strong track record with bigs and money to spend...hence oumar ballo and kel'el ware.
edit: my main thesis here is that it would be surprising to see a guy like estrella turn down 4m from someone else just to take 3-3.5m without the development aspect of the recruitment from michigan...them winning a title is the cherry on top but if iu were to give him 750k more, i think he'd be at iu.
Which is another problem DD has not developed any bigs or does not even really recruit them so why would they come here unless its for money. What would get a guy like Aiden Sherrell to IU other than money? I am guessing Woodson would never have gotten Ware without him seeing how TDJ had done under Woodson.
Was thinking about when Ace Bailey & Dylan Harper came to Rutgers. Those guys were right behind Cooper Flagg on the top high school prospect list. Not sure of the mindset of Ace and Dylan but it certainly wasn't all about winning.i think the winning thing is overstated.
if i'm a player, i'm looking at money and development more than winning. michigan won the estrella recruitment because of money and their development of bigs. sure, winning the title helped, but estrella's going to michigan for may's tutelage and money.
iu won nothing under woodson but had strong track record with bigs and money to spend...hence oumar ballo and kel'el ware.
edit: my main thesis here is that it would be surprising to see a guy like estrella turn down 4m from someone else just to take 3-3.5m without the development aspect of the recruitment from michigan...them winning a title is the cherry on top but if iu were to give him 750k more, i think he'd be at iu.
I think you are looking at it incorrectly. The “winning thing” may not matter to everyone. Of course there are players that don’t care about it, while it may be very important to others. The thing is that it dictates the type of players you get and what is important to them.
if IU is not a destination for players that want to win, you won’t get players that value winning.
At a lower talent level you have a kid like Trent Sisley who has the mindset of being a Hoosier basketball player. Not too many like Trent these days.
The schools that have coaches and GMs that understand the needs of particular players are going to do much better in the portal. This is easier said than done because this whole portal deal is like speed dating. How in the heck can you understand what makes someone tick in such limited time?
I'm not in Estrella's shoes but if I had his talent I'd go to Michigan with a hypothetical offer of $750,000 less than IU. I'd bet on myself and the ability to improve plus perhaps win a Big 10 and National Championship. A major part of my decision would be based on Dusty May's track record with bigs. Through development I'd expect to make up for the lesser Michigan offer by getting a lucrative NBA deal.
i think the winning thing is overstated.
if i'm a player, i'm looking at money and development more than winning. michigan won the estrella recruitment because of money and their development of bigs. sure, winning the title helped, but estrella's going to michigan for may's tutelage and money.
iu won nothing under woodson but had strong track record with bigs and money to spend...hence oumar ballo and kel'el ware.
edit: my main thesis here is that it would be surprising to see a guy like estrella turn down 4m from someone else just to take 3-3.5m without the development aspect of the recruitment from michigan...them winning a title is the cherry on top but if iu were to give him 750k more, i think he'd be at iu.
Which is another problem DD has not developed any bigs or does not even really recruit them so why would they come here unless its for money. What would get a guy like Aiden Sherrell to IU other than money? I am guessing Woodson would never have gotten Ware without him seeing how TDJ had done under Woodson.
"doesn't even really recruit them" is ridiculous. how can you make a statement like that? he's had one high class at iu that was hastily put together. they also decided not to pay top dollar for bigs they were in on (latrell almond). i don't know if i agree with that course but i think that's more of a $$ question rather than recruiting, in my opinion.
and yes! that's my point. woodson's development of tjd absolutely was why guys were steered his way...but iu also paid top dollar to both ballo and ware. if they weren't paid like top guys, they wouldn't have looked at iu. it's $$ + development over winning...that's literally my thesis.
i don't think jp estrella is an nba player and certainly nothing more than a 2nd round pick...he's not close to as talented as danny wolf or as big as adai mara. he also isn't a rim protector.
so, sure, all the power to you to bet on yourself...if i had his stats and measurables, i think that would be a silly gamble to walk away from 750k more money just because of the coach, but again, i get it if you'd want that path.
my point was more about the $$ + development is much more important than winning.
@iureactionary Especially considering the time value of money. $750k more when you are 20 could be tens of millions more by the time you are 60. Kids may not think about that but most of them probably have financial advisors as well as agents.
@ams66 750k is a lot of money no matter your age!
Also, if you're good enough to command that kind of money, then you should be good enough to be a major factor in helping your team be successful. If you're taking 750k less (hypothetically) just to join a winner, then maybe you don't believe in yourself enough to help a team become a winner.
Not saying this is what lead to Estrella's decision, of course this is all hypothetical. Just saying that rather than chasing a winner, be the factor that helps your team become winners.
We all have different opinions which is what makes these boards interesting. Was listening to a couple of Hoosier fans discussing Woodson’s development of bigs. The pro guy spoke about Ballo, TJD, Ware and Reneau. The con countered, well Woodson didn’t do a damn thing to develop TJDs outside shot, did he? Got pretty heated after that comment.
Indiana fans are hilarious ...
4 days into the portal cycle. Which has lasted late into the summer in previous years. 3000 players expected to be in the portal, 2000 currently in. Of the 3000 expected appx 1 to 2% have committed..
IU fans anytime anyone commits elsewhere: No one likes us. We should have hired Dusty May, he sniffed an RMK genius inducing fart once and he's the bestest ever! We're doomed!
lmao ..
I'm with you, most athletes want to compete and WIN. I think the type of players we want at IU are the type that want to play on a big stage, against the best, and compete to win. We don't need or want the Daryn Peterson's of the world.i think the winning thing is overstated.
if i'm a player, i'm looking at money and development more than winning. michigan won the estrella recruitment because of money and their development of bigs. sure, winning the title helped, but estrella's going to michigan for may's tutelage and money.
iu won nothing under woodson but had strong track record with bigs and money to spend...hence oumar ballo and kel'el ware.
edit: my main thesis here is that it would be surprising to see a guy like estrella turn down 4m from someone else just to take 3-3.5m without the development aspect of the recruitment from michigan...them winning a title is the cherry on top but if iu were to give him 750k more, i think he'd be at iu.
I think you are looking at it incorrectly. The “winning thing” may not matter to everyone. Of course there are players that don’t care about it, while it may be very important to others. The thing is that it dictates the type of players you get and what is important to them.
if IU is not a destination for players that want to win, you won’t get players that value winning.
Now, how much value does the average athlete place on joining a proven winner?? That's hard to say but $750k is a lot of cash.
Indiana fans are hilarious ...
4 days into the portal cycle. Which has lasted late into the summer in previous years. 3000 players expected to be in the portal, 2000 currently in. Of the 3000 expected appx 1 to 2% have committed..
IU fans anytime anyone commits elsewhere: No one likes us. We should have hired Dusty May, he sniffed an RMK genius inducing fart once and he's the bestest ever! We're doomed!
lmao ..
It all depends where they are ranked the top players are moving quickly at least making lists or narrowing them. So laugh all you want but in you want guys in on top 40 guys you need to be in on them like yesterday. But sure if you want lower ranked guys there is still plenty of time.