In the end, he couldn't keep his best players for 3-4 years because they got tired of his bullshit.@middawg We certainly had our share of guys perform as freshman, but I always thought RMK was great at developing guys and overall, preferred to play experienced guys. I just thought he believed in playing your best players and if some of those were freshman, he had no problem doing that. But, I feel like for every freshman you could name who surprised, I could give you 3-4 who didn't play much at all their freshman year who became cornerstones of later teams.
Who is this guy? Not very good numbers for a lower level player.
https://twitter.com/KayserHoops/status/2054271761722589335?s=20
The last three guys are all going to be practice guys from the sounds of it. If burton gets hurt I doubt this guy is the starting point they will use one of the other guards. Given you likely need 8 guys in the rotation I am guessing they are expecting two frosh and Sisely to give minutes.
@middawg We certainly had our share of guys perform as freshman, but I always thought RMK was great at developing guys and overall, preferred to play experienced guys. I just thought he believed in playing your best players and if some of those were freshman, he had no problem doing that. But, I feel like for every freshman you could name who surprised, I could give you 3-4 who didn't play much at all their freshman year who became cornerstones of later teams.
Disagree.
The hit rate in any given year for a freshman to emerge as an over achiever off the bat was very high in the 80's and 90's compared to the mostly dry spell in the recent 15 years of IUBB.
Some years and players that IU didn't get an overachieving Frosh over those twenty seasons were the years with Brooks, Patterson, then Wilkerson as the headliners.
Chalk those seasons up to you can't strike gold every time right off the bat.
Meaningful overachievers as Frosh in the the 80's and 90's which created the high hit rate.
Zeke
Uwe
Alford and Simmons
Calloway
Edwards
Anderson
Cheaney
Bailey
Henderson
Guyton
Recker
Haston
Newton
Jeffries
@tjinman1987 Am hoping out of the last 3 roster spots, one might be big capable of playing 12 or so minutes a game if needed. The 2026-27 roster is stronger than the one of last year but very weak on size depth. Maybe we will get a nice surprise on roster member #13 but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that outcome.
Monden played on a terrible team and doesn't appear to be as good a player as Jason Drake. He's a practice player that will get mop-up minutes on blow outs and probably a kid that will greatly appreciate being a member of a Big 10 team for his senior season.
Yeah, I know some will say at least the roster for 2026-27 has 2 quality bigs.
@bigmike Last remaining hope is these last 2 signings were virtually free, little to no NIL spend, pseudo walk ons... to allow for us to spend a little money on a more impactful guy with our 13th scholly.
Sokolov, developmental 7 footer. Foreign. Ties to a very impactful agent over there. He's a tall body for practices. Pretty easy to get that one.
Monden, a little more difficult to peg that one. He looks shifty from his highlights. I hear he's an active and disruptive defender. His stats are obviously very underwhelming. But for the role he'll be playing, he didn't have to be a volume scorer or anything. One of my chief concerns is his size. He's not very tall, and he's not very stout. So he's not going to give Burton or any of the other guards a B10, NCAA tournament caliber test in practices...physically.
Trying to be more positive about the finish to this class. But its not easy, right now. But, its not abnormal for good college teams to have guys like this at the ends of their benches. Its just that I think IU needed at least one of these spots to be a guy that could actually play in meaningful games. Not looking like that's gonna happen.
@middawg we have a different definition of overachiever. I'd agree with most on your list, but to my memory, a lot was expected of Isiah, Alford, Edwards, Recker, Henderson and Jeffries. One factor is that with less recruiting info and AAU there was just less known about recruits in general prior to about 1990.
I had never heard Uwe's first year (or two years) called overachieving before. 😆 Student fans were pulling their hair out, on how often he dropped the ball on an entry pass. Like, every time... It was scary. He did play though and the stats arent too bad.
Coach Knight (I heard) had him spending a ton of time in practice having a student manager or assistant throwing him pass after pass. By Uwe's senior year you couldn't get a feed through him, you could fire it at his shoelaces and 5 feet wide and he'd reach down or wide and snag it with one hand. He was money.
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The story of Uwe catching passes and that I heard a bunch were thrown off target on purpose, reminds me of playing catch with my (late) Dad. I wasn't any good at 12-13 years and dropped the ball a lot, turned the glove the wrong way, etc., and Dad would show the right way. And then as we were warmed up and were throwing pretty fast, about every 5th toss he'd throw at my toes, or way out to the side, or over my head. I improved a lot learning to catch those anyway. Sort of like Uwe, after a summer of that, Dad had a heck of time getting them by me.
@openwheel That's starting to tap my feeble cranium, but I don't remember much hype about Uwe and I think he did play a fair amount as an underclassman so maybe just seeing the floor was a surprise? But yeah, to me it was his junior year before I even thought of him as decent and he as solid as a senior... again, from my foggy brain!
@openwheel when I was coaching my sons rec leagues teams, many of the passes I'd throw would be at their feet or off to one side. That often gets neglected.
@middawg We've had a chunk of impactful frosh since Jeffries... but it hits differently when the team isn't as good. And in some ways, it might even go against that freshman that has a good year.
02-03...Bracey Wright... he was really good. The team underachieved. Many undervalue how good Bracey was as a result. Marshall Strickland is a guy that could be argued developed in to a very good player later in his IU career from this class. But I'd contend he was always just a solid guy, and was from the start at IU.
03-04...Rod Wilmont... example of a guy that wasn't great as a frosh, but became very solid at IU.
04-05...DJ White and Robert Vaden... both really good freshman seasons.
06-07...Armon Bassett... surprisingly very good freshman year for Sampson.
07-08...Eric Gordon, Jordan Crawford... Gordon was every bit as good as his hype, and Crawford was surprisingly good...legacy of both tarnished by the Sampson debacle.
08-09...Verdell Jones... Suprisingly good right away. The team was awful, so he's really not given a ton of credit.
09-10...Christian Watford, Mo Creek... very good, right away. Hulls was in this class too, and wasn't as impactful as a frosh. As an example of a developed over time guy. Team was still bad though. Watford got his spotlight eventually, but not the glazing that the Bailey/Cheaney years guys got...because the team wasn't very good. Elston was also a guy that developed over time and became a more prominent player. Hulls is the main guy that became notably good though after an average frosh year.
10-11...Olidipo and Sheehey... I'd actually use these guys as examples of development guys. Both were pretty inconsistent and sporadic. And the team wasn't very good. So it was a blah start to their IU careers.
11-12... Cody Zeller... obvious instant impact frosh. And because the Wat shot happened, and we went to the S16... I think his freshman year is remembered much more positively than say a DJ White's was... for similar production.
12-13... Yogi Ferrell... instant leader on a very good team. His stats weren't overwhelming. But his freshman year was instant impact, and remembered accordingly because of how IU was. Stat wise, it wasn't close to most of the guys listed above. But like Bailey, he came in and helped lead a very good team. The rest of that class, "The Movement", barf.
13-14... Noah Vonleh... Very good freshman year. Nearly a double double. One and done. Troy Williams, I'd put in the developmental category. Decent first year. But became pretty good later in IU career.
14-15... James Blackmon... Averaged 15 and 5 as a frosh. Historically one of the better freshman seasons ever at IU. Team underachieved though. I think that jades that season. Robert Johnson was a frosh in that class, and was pretty solid as a frosh, but I'd label him more of a development guy.
15-16... Thomas Bryant... Instant impact. His stats weren't off the charts at 12 and 6... but again, he was a very good player, on a B10 champ and S16 team. That elevates that year in our minds. OG Anunobe and Juwan Morgan are examples of guys that developed in to great players after their frosh years, from that class.
16-17... Devonte Green... didn't play much as a frosh... became pretty impactful later in IU career.
18-19... Romeo Langford... He was very good in his year at IU... stat wise, historically good. But the team underachieved, and he played for Archie, so his legacy at IU isn't what it might have been if the team and coach had been better.
19-20... TJD... great right away. Stayed great.
20-21... Trey Galloway and Anthony Leal... neither were good as frosh...I'd contend neither really became all that great, but both did improve and become solid. But their teams mostly stunk, and they were relied upon to play roles they weren't suited for. And their judged accordingly. I think either/both of them would be much more popular had they played lesser roles for better teams. Maybe that's obvious?
21-22... Tamar Bates... uneventful, mediocre freshman year... later became very good for Mizzou. An example of a developmental guy that became really good.
22-23... JHS was a stud right away. He helped lead one of the better teams we've had in the last decade, so he's viewed very favorably. Not NEARLY as good overall as Romeo was. But the team won more, and he did beat Purdue a couple times! Reneau is an example of a developmental guy from this class. He didn't do a ton as a frosh, but became very productive later on, including this year at Miami.
23-24... Mackenzie Mgbako... very good as a freshman, very productive. Team stunk, he's largely not liked because of his role in team stinking.
24-25... Bryson Tucker... doesn't really matter for this convo. But he was underwhelming versus his rankings... seems to be emerging a little at UW.
All in all... I'd say IU has had quite a lot more instant impact level freshmen since the RMK years, than most would realize or give credit for. Its just that the coaching, the teams, etc... have not been up to what IU fans had been used to. But a list since RMK of our best freshmen, is much more impressive than most would give it credit for.
Most of those guys had a great deal expected of them, even as freshmen. I'd say a few of them overachieved, but most of them achieved at their expected level as freshmen.@middawg We certainly had our share of guys perform as freshman, but I always thought RMK was great at developing guys and overall, preferred to play experienced guys. I just thought he believed in playing your best players and if some of those were freshman, he had no problem doing that. But, I feel like for every freshman you could name who surprised, I could give you 3-4 who didn't play much at all their freshman year who became cornerstones of later teams.
Disagree.
The hit rate in any given year for a freshman to emerge as an over achiever off the bat was very high in the 80's and 90's compared to the mostly dry spell in the recent 15 years of IUBB.
Some years and players that IU didn't get an overachieving Frosh over those twenty seasons were the years with Brooks, Patterson, then Wilkerson as the headliners.
Chalk those seasons up to you can't strike gold every time right off the bat.
Meaningful overachievers as Frosh in the the 80's and 90's which created the high hit rate.
Zeke
Uwe
Alford and Simmons
Calloway
Edwards
Anderson
Cheaney
Bailey
Henderson
Guyton
Recker
Haston
Newton
Jeffries
Monden doesn't look bad or anything. But with those numbers at that level of comp he also not likely to play a lot.
Shows we have maxed out our spending.. Seeing the last couple we are filling with.
Still, Monden decided to be a Hoosier. Welcome! He does have some skills and the staff wants him.
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@bigmike Last remaining hope is these last 2 signings were virtually free, little to no NIL spend, pseudo walk ons... to allow for us to spend a little money on a more impactful guy with our 13th scholly.
Sokolov, developmental 7 footer. Foreign. Ties to a very impactful agent over there. He's a tall body for practices. Pretty easy to get that one.
Monden, a little more difficult to peg that one. He looks shifty from his highlights. I hear he's an active and disruptive defender. His stats are obviously very underwhelming. But for the role he'll be playing, he didn't have to be a volume scorer or anything. One of my chief concerns is his size. He's not very tall, and he's not very stout. So he's not going to give Burton or any of the other guards a B10, NCAA tournament caliber test in practices...physically.
Trying to be more positive about the finish to this class. But its not easy, right now. But, its not abnormal for good college teams to have guys like this at the ends of their benches. Its just that I think IU needed at least one of these spots to be a guy that could actually play in meaningful games. Not looking like that's gonna happen.
3-4 weeks ago, after we secured the 6 commits. Rabjohns tweeted something to the effect that we 'had our roster' and that the last 3 spots would be developmental guys and/or practice players.
No IU fan wanted that to be true, because we all see the utility of a 3rd veteran ball-handler, another veteran volume shooter, and a 6 9 or up inside presence capable of playing 10-15 minutes in a particular game.
It sure seems, like it or not, that we'll be 0 for 3 for that list. While it would still be possible to add a foreign big or maybe a late decommit, that would not square with us passing over maybe 40 portal guys who would have fit that slot, and looking instead at stiffs and a borderline 'developmental' guy who no one thinks will play.
Because this program is more secretive than the CIA, we have only speculation as the 'why' here. For the non-bigs, perhaps they were promised certain levels of PT, and CDD is not comfortable with true competition for PT. In other words, it's easier this way. Not worth the risk actually trying to field a championship-level product when there are 76 ways to get to the tourney, which automatically will spell success for this wreck of a program. Play the freshmen. Get them experience. Sacrifice any hope of genuine achievement.
But not going after a third big? Not even looking for one--I only saw IU interest with one guy 6 9 or taller in the last few weeks. That's very hard to defend, imo, if anyone actually felt the necessity to try.
You worded your disappointment in the program as, 'our coach is a milquetoast pussy' , type of statement.For the non-bigs, perhaps they were promised certain levels of PT, and CDD is not comfortable with true competition for PT. In other words, it's easier this way. Not worth the risk actually trying to field a championship-level product when there are 76 ways to get to the tourney, which automatically will spell success for this wreck of a program.
Doubt it.
If CDD had more bucks, we'd have more Buck Rogers. No way our choices are made to merely kiss the asses of the incoming guys. Only to the extent that for example Sherrell knew he had support at center so he could play forward, but not 'Sherrell (or Burton) we will make sure you have no competition'. IMO
Seems we spent a ton of dollars. We get what we get with the rest.