@iunorth 

not sammy or tj but i don't think taylor is picking IU. seems like msu all the way.

unless things change with diane, i don't think IU is the pick there either. seems like houston is out front, regardless of if they land the g league kid or not, and IU is probably near the top of the second group. 

@iureactionary That's how it's sounded, but I figure each day that goes by without an announcement helps IU's chances.

@kkott I'd very much prefer Taylor to Diane... but either one would be huge, obviously.  Only thing that gives me pause on writing Diane off to Houston, although he has crystal balls there now...is he's from Iowa.  Maybe CDD has some ties with him because of that?

Lots of time, there will be shakeups witch coaches that bring HS bigs in to play between now and next summer, there will be portal bigs obviously, and there will be foreign bigs.  But missing out on all the elite playmaking guards and all the elite bigs, in the normal fall signing timeframe, wouldn't be ideal.

I think Moody and Karvala are great additions.  And assuming guys like Dorn, Harris, the foreign kids, and Sisley come back... that's a solid core to build on from portal/foreign kids.

I just don't like the vibe of not landing any "5 star" type kids.  It took Crean a couple years to land one, but other than that, every single coach since RMK has been able to land an elite NBA/5 star type kid or two in their first class.  Still some time, but that's one of the few concerning things remaining with CDD.  He's not "winning" many of these high profile recruiting battles, for whatever reason. 

Posted by: @iunorth

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@kkott I'd very much prefer Taylor to Diane... but either one would be huge, obviously.  Only thing that gives me pause on writing Diane off to Houston, although he has crystal balls there now...is he's from Iowa.  Maybe CDD has some ties with him because of that?

Lots of time, there will be shakeups witch coaches that bring HS bigs in to play between now and next summer, there will be portal bigs obviously, and there will be foreign bigs.  But missing out on all the elite playmaking guards and all the elite bigs, in the normal fall signing timeframe, wouldn't be ideal.

I think Moody and Karvala are great additions.  And assuming guys like Dorn, Harris, the foreign kids, and Sisley come back... that's a solid core to build on from portal/foreign kids.

I just don't like the vibe of not landing any "5 star" type kids.  It took Crean a couple years to land one, but other than that, every single coach since RMK has been able to land an elite NBA/5 star type kid or two in their first class.  Still some time, but that's one of the few concerning things remaining with CDD.  He's not "winning" many of these high profile recruiting battles, for whatever reason. 

Yes......concerning.

@iunorth I'd say he's not "winning" the battles, because he's not winning at IU... yet. I think with his approach, the first step is getting us in the conversation and to close them, he's going to have to show some results: wins, development, NBA opps... If you look at it that way, Cig's not winning many of the 4 and 5 star battles just yet either, is he? But, he's getting us in on a lot of those guys and I doubt anyone thinks he won't get them.

@kkott fair enough... a comeback to that is Davis, Sampson, Archie, and Woody all landed big fish right away, without proving it with wins at IU first.  Maybe the brand has finally diminished to the point where "IU" doesn't mean nearly as much?  Kinda doubt that, CDD has "gotten in" quite a lot of recruiting battles for elite level kids.  Seems like at a minimum, the IU name still holds weight, and probably still looks good on an offer list for most kids.  But if IU is still an impactful name, maybe we don't actually have "top 10" NIL funds, or whatever the consensus has been?  Also don't believe that.  We were able to land Wilkerson, Conerway, Bailey, and Alexis... all coveted by other high major programs.  None of those 4 were cheap.  And we also had to pay Tucker, and then pay 7-8 other scholarship players that had viable offers to play elsewhere.

Obviously Cig is proving on the football side you can win big without traditional 4 or 5 star level kids.  One very big difference is IU football doesn't have a history of landing 4 and 5 star kids, regularly, like IU basketball does.  IU football, compared to many other P4 peer programs, is very far behind in NIL capacity.  IU basketball, I don't believe, is very far behind much of anyone NIL wise.  

But it is early, and I gotta think CDD's style of play offensively and defensively will become more and more attractive to high level recruits.  I don't "need" for him to land 5 star HS kids, I don't need for him to land obvious 1 and done NBA portal kids.  I just don't want him to become Wisconsin or Purdue types of programs.  Indiana doesn't have to be managed that way.  It doesn't need that governor.  So maybe its symbolic...but until he lands one of these 5 star type kids...or blatantly obvious NBA prospect portal kids... its going to be a concern of mine.  Obviously unless he wins a Natty without some NBA level kids.  Then I'd probably shut up about it.

Well, we know for sure that Woodson recruited before having won anything. Every year was that way actually. He missed on a ton of guys. Then bought a bunch from the portal.

I'll wait to be concerned for the next class. But would be nice if DeVries showed to be a powerhouse recruiter right away. Not it seeing that, but he seems like a 'good' recruiter.

I thought he brought in coaches (that some said had past issues) because they could recruit? Adams, Johnson? Maybe he needs to adjust his staff if they can't bring home the bacon.

I kinda get the recruiting concerns.  It’s just so early in his tenure.  And some of the portal guys were recruiting wins.

CDD is likable and works hard and the staff has good recruiters.  Play well and kids will be more comfortable with IU and NIL will probably tick up too.

@iunorth Ever watch/listen to Xs and Joes? One of those guys (Mike?) has tried to do some statistical analysis of the best range for players from teams who win championships and it's a tier from like 40-80 or something in that range. Think he said all 3 of the guys CDD has gotten, fall into that preferred range. I've only heard him refer to it one time after Karvala. Guys are hard for me to listen too. Sort of the Dungeons and Dragons of college bball.

Agreed, the style is going to be attractive to players. I wouldn't be surprised if NIL did take a dip this year. It sounded like Woody had his backers lined up and they well may have taken their dollars and gone home. With CDD not being a big name, the name probably didn't attract a lot of financial support, and I'd guess football's success has siphoned some away too. And, I think NIL deals really jumped this year so it was a bad year to have to pay a whole new roster, which made less available even if you had a top 10 bankroll. Really need Dolson to try and prime the pump there, and of course winning will fix all!

I know if I was CDD, I'd be trying very hard to make sure all former players, especially those with NBA ties, feel welcome and come back often. Especially the more recent guys like Cody, Vic, OG, T Bryant, E Gordon, etc...., but older guys too. Get those guys around the program. Think Woody did an alumni golf outing for former players and that is a good idea. 

Posted by: @iunorth

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Davis, Sampson, Archie, and Woody all landed big fish right away, without proving it with wins at IU first.

And also without much to show for it, certainly in the case of Miller and Woodson at least.

@kkott I'll have to check those guys out.  I've done some pretty in depth research posts in the past about formulas for Final Fours and Natty's.  If we want Indiana to win a natty again, they need NBA caliber players on their roster, year in and year out.  5 star recruits are an easy way to get that... but obviously not the only way.  Actually, I'd say the transfer portal, and NIL, has created a clear trend where teams led by young, 5 star level HS recruits, don't end up winning Natty's any more.  The teams with veterans, guys that have been in the program for more than a year, end up winning it all.  But the one constant that remains, Natty winners have depth of NBA caliber talent.

I guess we'll see if anyone like Wilkerson or DeVries ends up getting drafted.  And I do think Karvala could end up being an NBA level wing.  But I think it'd take even the most optimistic IU fan to say this team, and what we have returning plus Moody and Karvala next year, has obvious NBA talent.  He needs it.  He hasn't really been winning the battles for it.  And until he does, its a concern.

@iunorth Let's think this through a bit deeper though...

Davis' took over for Knight, so the brand, system and structure were already established. Davis already had connections as the lead recruiter.

Sampson had a high profile name with major success at a P4 program, the Indiana name brand and his cheating only enhanced his recruiting. His 5* was an Indiana kid.

Miller had name recognition coming off of high profile success at Dayton, and his first class included a 5* from Southern Indiana.

Woody had name recognition from the NBA that he was able to sell plus playing alongside an All-American.

CDD has none of that tell sell.

Posted by: @iunorth

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@kkott I'll have to check those guys out.  I've done some pretty in depth research posts in the past about formulas for Final Fours and Natty's.  If we want Indiana to win a natty again, they need NBA caliber players on their roster, year in and year out.  5 star recruits are an easy way to get that... but obviously not the only way.  Actually, I'd say the transfer portal, and NIL, has created a clear trend where teams led by young, 5 star level HS recruits, don't end up winning Natty's any more.  The teams with veterans, guys that have been in the program for more than a year, end up winning it all.  But the one constant that remains, Natty winners have depth of NBA caliber talent.

I guess we'll see if anyone like Wilkerson or DeVries ends up getting drafted.  And I do think Karvala could end up being an NBA level wing.  But I think it'd take even the most optimistic IU fan to say this team, and what we have returning plus Moody and Karvala next year, has obvious NBA talent.  He needs it.  He hasn't really been winning the battles for it.  And until he does, its a concern.

Tucker will be a NBA talent. 6'7" guys with quick triggers and accuracy have a place in the league. He'll likely be a 2nd rounder that is a second unit player that brings value.

@beez Very good points.  And valid, for sure.  And IU's NIL capabilities, relative to whatever advantages or disadvantages they may have had when our previous coaches were getting started at IU, could be very relative.  I feel better now.  Ha ha.

Actually... like I said, its a concern until he lands an obvious elite, NBA level kid.  And he was in recruiting battles, basically right away, for a decent number of these types of kids.  So whatever caused him not being able to close any of them, is the main concern.  And until he gets one, it'll remain a concern.  But your points do soften those concerns!... a little bit.  

Not to keep piling on.. but I will - many top recruits were probably barely kept in touch with by Woodson's staff. A guy out three years?! Got other stuff to do.

So DeVries needed and needs to reestablish the Indiana brand with the pipelines. I feel good that is happening.