One thing that's pretty firmly established at this point is you can't realistically expect a team to make a FF, or even make a deep tournament run, without having a guy, or two, or more... that will eventually play in the NBA.
We spend a lot of time on here gnashing our teeth about whether IU will compete in the B10, and obviously that's an important consideration. But I'll bring back up an old argument I've made. I do NOT want IU to become Purdue, or Wisconsin... And I'm kinda worried that's the kind of coach DeVries aims to be.
So... who can prove me wrong, and break through this year and become an NBA level guy? Sherrell is an obvious choice. He has the size and length. Yiggy obviously has quite a lot of size, as well. Anyone else? Vaughn Karvala has the length and bounce... needs to get stronger probably.
Our B10 schedule seems to be comparatively light, so we could make a leap and contend near the top of the league if no one on our roster is an NBA level guy. But we won't make a FF if none are league level. And I know thinking about FFs, right now, seems unrealistic. But IU should have NBA level guys... because IU can attract those types of guys. Even as blah as we've been since RMK... we've still had a decent amount of NBA guys pass through Bloomington.
@iunorth hahah -I would love to be Purdue or Wisconsin right now! I know what you’re saying, but as bad as we have been the last 20+ yrs, I’d take the success of both this programs for a few years
I will go out on a limb and say Sherrell is an nba guy, maybe Burton.
There's not one that is a given NBA guy. I see right now 3 possible role playing nba guys... not considering Freshman... have to see more of them to render... Sam, Sherrell, and Burton. But no one that jumps off the page yet.
and I agree need 2-3 of those types of guys to compete for a title
also agree don't want to be Purdue or Wisconsin... Michigan or UCONN please
@hoosiers94 Or Illinois...or Michigan State even... let alone teams like you mentioned, or Kansas, or Duke. I think anyone clamoring for Purdue or Wisconsin, as any sort of "next step", is missing the fact that those programs, because of their philosophies and how they're run, have never taken that final step. Purdue has flirted with it lately... so maaaaaayyyybeee, they're not a great example. But it took Painter literal decades to get there. And even at that, it took a unicorn mountain of a man to take them to that brink... and even then, it was more than obvious besides Edey, they didn't have the horses to get it done. They're very predictabley solid, he has his program at peak efficiency, so they're going to compete at the top of the conference, and they're going to be a second weekend threat, basically every year. But until he hits on a group that has multiple legit NBA rotation level players, they aren't hanging a banner. I want banners, the big ones, not just B10 ones and Sweet 16s.
I don't think Burton is a viable guy for this. That'd be enormous for IU if he became that. Both on the court, and in recruiting. But he just isn't suited for it, in my opinion. Sherrell is an obvious candidate. It'd be great if we get some sort of OG Anunobe surprise with one of the portal guys or the incoming frosh. Maybe Harris realizes his talents coming out of HS? Karvala and/or Moody maybe?
Big scheme... not liking the overall feel, vibe, trend, though, with CDD and how he's started out at IU with building teams without NBA level guys. I know I've argued with you a lot about a lot of things. But it really should have happened immediately. Maybe its a chicken/egg type of thing... but it needs to happen soon. And one of the "worst" things that could happen is Dolson, and our collective fan base, being happy for Wisconsin like results. How long is that acceptable? Are there examples of coaches that built their team and programs that way, and then all of a sudden started attracting and landing NBA level talent? Underwood maybe?
Just some thoughts running through my head in early July. Outside wins, having a guy or two emerge as an NBA level guy, on THIS team, is one of the more important things that could happen for IU basketball, in my opinion.
agree. That's perpetual limbo ... no thanks. I want the same banners you want ... he's not landing the type of talent we need to do that. And you know my thoughts on his coaching abilities... if he's unable to recruit or even try to recruit the big dogs then how can he possibly be adept enough to "coach" any roster to a title. Don't see it. But we agree on what we want to accomplish... banners... NC banners
@hoosiers94 That's where the arguments happen... ha ha. I do think he'd be able to coach them if he got them. But its all part of the package. I think he's the exact level of coach that could eventually make IU a perennial Purdue/Wisconsin type team, coaching wise. Obviously I have some questions on that, with what some of IU's deficiencies were last year. But the Drake accomplishments couldn't have "just happened", if he isn't a good basketball coach, and isn't a good program builder. But in order for him to get IU back to Mid 70s to Mid 90s level IU, he's going to have to figure out how to attract NBA level guys. Quite a lot of examples other places where coaches immediately start bringing in NBA level guys. Some of them haven't figured out how to win with them (Hubert Davis)... Some of them it took a few years to do it (Sampson, Hurley, Golden).
The only guy I think could be an exception to this is Ben McCollum. I think he's so good, and so advanced, that he could hang banners without obvious NBA talent. I think CDD is an above average basketball mind, above average game and program coach. But not good enough to constantly be outcoaching his talent level enough to elevate a team without NBA level guys, to the FF. But I think that's pretty much all coaches. He needs NBA level dudes.
With the 5 for 5, all these underclassman, and hopefully some retention discounts from a few guys, it would be great news if every one on this seasons roster is projected as a second round pick at best so the core can run it back in '27/'28 after exceeding expectations this season.
I'm going to be satisfied with 'Wisconsin level results'. For now. And for up to a few years. Beats the hell out of the alternative that we have lived with. Below mediocre... I just want to be in contention for something, anything!
Yes, I am settling for mediocrity until after we prove we can to at least there. Even scaring the sweet 16 by winning a single 64 game beats bowing out right away or missing completely.
Sucks, but it is what it is. Football needs the dough too.
@openwheel I think that's the wrong mindset. And an unnecessary one for Indiana. Its sort of like someone taking over the Yankees GM job, and being o.k. with spending Royals levels of money if that meant they'd be above .500 and competing for playoffs spots most years. Dusty May just shattered the mold for B10 success. IU obviously could choose the Wisky/Purdue/Nebraska route. I actually think that's probably what they already did choose with CDD. I just don't think that's necessary. And its basically wasting time. And it doesn't "get us closer" in any way. Because when you move on from CDD... lets say 10 years from now, after he establishes a Wisconsin like program... if you're doing that because you're itching to take that next step and compete for a natty... you're going in a different direction and that next coach will be starting over anyways.
I like CDD as a basketball mind. I like some of the stuff he ran last year. I think with NBA level dudes, he could be the guy. But he has to want those types of guys, and then have the ability to land them. With his first two rosters, its not clear he wants or will be able to get Final Four caliber players.
I'm going to be satisfied with 'Wisconsin level results'. For now. And for up to a few years. Beats the hell out of the alternative that we have lived with. Below mediocre... I just want to be in contention for something, anything!
Yes, I am settling for mediocrity until after we prove we can to at least there. Even scaring the sweet 16 by winning a single 64 game beats bowing out right away or missing completely.
Sucks, but it is what it is. Football needs the dough too.
imagine if Cig had that mentality
Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it.@openwheel I think that's the wrong mindset. And an unnecessary one for Indiana. ...
I didn't say the team, coaches, or admin will have that mindset. They won't.
I'm not going to be one of the fans hounding them. Just move the ####### needle in the right direction!
...Well, since football stirs the drink, that would be bad.imagine if Cig had that mentality
Basketball has sunk in importance. Priorities...
I hope the team, coaches, admin have the Cig mindset.
But I don't need it myself when it comes to 'college' sports. I just want a small amount of enjoyment from the BB team instead of embarrassment.
@openwheel Oh, I'll enjoy it if they're playing good basketball. When it appeared like they were going to, this past year, I was knee deep in arguments, defending CDD. I do think he's a good basketball mind and coach, and I want that at IU. I just want it to be combined with a guy that's willing and able to maximize the resources IU offers. And its concerning now that he's assembled 2 rosters, with zero obvious NBA level guys.
But yes, for sure, if we win 25 games this year, and contend near the top of the conference, I'll enjoy the heck out of it.
We all will enjoy improvement.. I.e. making the tournament ... well making the tournament with this new expansion may not actually be improvement but hey ...
the problem with this "improvement " is the level of it ... It would be like kissing your sister. It's welcomed but not acceptable nor desired... but much better than kissing your brother.
where IUNorth and I differ on whether DD is capable of getting us to the top level not just the next level but the top level. We both want the same ending ... a banner ... as m sure most of us do..it's the how , who etc that is the nuts and bolts.
I would endure a couple of undesirable seasons if the long term meant a high sustained level of success...